Swann probably has the strongest anti ground composition in the game, but suffers a lot due to ramp-up time.
You don’t need an army that can instant evaporate 5 waves at the same time if you can get to that army only by the 45 minute mark: you need an army that can hold your own or better as early as possible. That’s the issue with Swann. And due to large discrepancies between Swann and especially the later commanders, the better your ally is at speed running, the worse Swann feels.
My response is this:
The average player can D-matrix 3-5 times within a 5 second frame. Pick which units to D-matrix, science vessels or your goliaths / tanks / thors. If you mass enough units and upgraded them, you can kill all comp easily.
If you want to throw some Hercs away, go ahead.
All the commanders are very capable, you just need to learn how to use them.
5 times the games? and still struggling on Swann?
Have you play Swann against all enemy comps on all maps? Did you play Swann repeatedly? If not, then you don’t have not enough practice. Because that’s what it takes to learn Swann.
And why did you get offended while others offer advice? I didn’t have any ill intentions. Also playing more games than someone else doesn’t mean you know more or more skilled. There are many players that are great with Swann, against all enemy comps and in all maps. If they can do it then it is doable.
This is what it takes to improve on Swann. Every little details matters. And yes Goliaths Air attacks further and faster than Dragoons.
No one is criticizing you for having lack of skills. The forums frown on people who complain and whine.
Holy crap Zhadoom. The answer is yes, people play Swann, and they can do it effectively and on par with other CO’s, and people enjoy him. If you have 5 times the games as others and still can’t hit the same results that they are, then obviously he’s not for you. That’s okay, there plenty of other CO’s out there. If you still want to improve, perhaps watch some Youtube videos, or try to ally up with a good Swann and get some pointers.
-Swann is pretty good about having global map presence. Calldowns to kill waves anywhere on the map (Use a cheap Herc for vision)
-Cheap effective defenses that can be placed anywhere due to Herc. And his defenses provide more DPS than Karax’s for the cost due to most of his turrets having splash.
-The Herc allows you to transport huge chunks of your army anywhere on the map instantly, and if your going against a ground comp, his tanks are capable of killing entire armies before they get into range.
-If your not going against a comp that counters air, micro’d Wraiths have insane dps, cloak, and are fast enough to respond anywhere on the map.
And many more things that gives him and effective, fun and unique kit compared to other CO’s. And on maps like Mist opporunities, having turrets camping multiple enemy attack waves all over the map, a strong army pushing into the enemy base, and calldowns used on anything else that slips through the cracks, and still providing that sweet, sweet gas is something that most other CO’s can’t even do, much less pull off as well as the round boi Swann.
If you want, hit me up for some games. I’ll show you some damn cool Swann plays.
https:// drop.sc/replay/16377101
With a sub mastery HnH on Pnp, meaning I did the early game pushing.
https:// drop.sc/replay/16378350
With a full mastery Vora on Mist. Turrets everywhere.
https:// drop.sc/replay/16378406
Brutal+ with Zera on RtK. I mostly handled the waves, while he did more pushing. Mass Thors cause why not.
https:// drop.sc/replay/16378466
Brutal+ on CoD. They went for a somewhat hero Kerri until the end.
https:// drop.sc/replay/16378487
ME with sub mastery HnH. Although Swann just cheating on ME…he so good.
https:// drop.sc/replay/16378495
Pnp with Nova Ally. Went P1 with mass Wraiths…for some reason.
I do love me the round boi.
This might help with early game:
Do not open with Goliath. The 2-4 Goliath you can pump out early do not provide a critical mass of where losses do not matter. These cost gas that is costly to lose early.
Use hellbats - they cost minerals and can tank long enough for enemy to die from drill/ally etc.
Or:
Use tanks - they have the protocol, so not totally lost if die.
Enemy comp will tell you which one to go for.
When economy is fully set up - pump out Goliath. Mix in hellbats, these are meant to die instead of Goliath until you reach the critical mass.
Cyclones!!! Use them to kite!!! Lol jk.
Swann is my least favorite commander among the first 7 (the ones I owned until 1 week ago).
Goliaths aren’t THAT bad. They’re durable enough to dole out decent damage, but cheap enough that you shouldn’t have any issues replacing them from mid-game on when your economy is booming. This is even without Sci Vess. Ofc, don’t try to use them against comps and situations where they’re weak against (e.g. mass Immortals)
There really isn’t a situation where Goliaths aren’t useful. Even vs Immortal/Collosus, Goliath AA missiles have massive range and deal major damage to the Collosus while your tanks mop up the ground forces.
Unless for some reason you’re starving for gas, they also make a more effective all around meat shield for your Siege Tanks than Helbats do.
Goliath/Tank/Science Vessel forms the core of Swann’s army. You mix in Thors if you want vs things like Muta/Scourge/Baneling or Helbats if you prefer if you need to dump minerals.
Otherwise, Goliath/Tank/Science Vessel and Herc micro if you can do it, there is no composition that this unit comp can’t deal with.
I would point out that Swan being in the game passively helps your ally, laser drill and free vespene. Compared to many other commanders who will need to actively help their ally with medics/assimilation aura etc.
So some of his power budget is spent on making his allies life easier. When playing as Swan’s ally I will notice that everything I do becomes easier as with the drill or something like guardian shell my ally could be afk and I will still be clearing the map at an accelerated rate.
In no way would I say Swan is a bad commander as much as some players may find him difficult.
Save yourself 400-800 mineral in early game. 90% of the time when I played with an ally, I never find they “live up to” that extra gas.
So unless you got that sweet vespene drone mastery, don’t spend that extra cash to hinder yourself. Too often do I fast expand, defend first wave, then maybe even second wave, whilst opening up ally’s rocks, and then adding 800 worth of vespene drones. Only to find my ally at 10min mark still having 0 unit (or close enough to not even able to handle wave 2 or 3).
It’s these times I think to myself, why do I bother wasting that much resources lol. And I still continue to do it… but not because of that 90%, rather those 10% who are adequate or exceptional.
The vespene drones give you gas as well as your ally. So put them down when you need gas, whether or not your ally uses it is a bonus.
Yeah, Swann is like Raynor in how they’re really outdated compared to modern commanders.
I find Raynor really strong, especially since prestige.
But Swann, like some says earlier, I love him as an ally, his Drill and his Vespene Drones help a lot, but I don’t like to play him.
Yeah, as an ally, he’s a godsend to commanders like Karax who are gas starved.
Raynor P1 is strong, but I feel it’s just boring to play.
I’m gas starved with most of my commanders lol, except Raynor x) (Can’t tell for the 11 last yet).
Oh, me I love to play him. But ya, there are commanders I prefer, but he isn’t the last in my list.
You should always have at least SOME points in Vespene Mastery, putting 30 points in Laser Drill mastery is overkill.
This is even more true for Karax. People on these boards love to rag on him (well before his Prestiges came in which are great) but would always forget or ignore how much he passively benefits his ally.
I don’t know… I like my drill. And getting a full RtK clear at 16-17min seem pretty good. The vespene cost doesn’t hinder me that much. It’s just the thought of doing everything for some people only to see it go to waste that occasionally gives me the oooof.
Well sure if I know I’m going to be on RtK then I’ll agree with you. But on other maps the drill is a lot less useful, I like the Vespene Mastery because it’s never NOT useful.
With P0 Swann I use a split between Laser and Vespene Masteries just so I can be prepared for any scenario. With Payload Director, I use 30 points in Vespene Mastery simply because I don’t use or need the Drill for as much.