DH Masters Atlanta

General Discussion
21

Great coming to a thread of potentially the last premier North American StarCraft II tournament and seeing a bunch of ridiculous and uninformed whining.

The tournament itself was a huge success. The DreamHack event needed to steal additional seating from the main stage, and the space couldn’t fit all the fans. Fans were forced to stand so far back they couldn’t hear the (very loud) speakers. It was a beautiful thing to see.

They showed some really poor games on Friday (Vindicta vs. Jieshie, Mana vs. Spirit, etc) but the games Saturday and Sunday were phenomenal. We couldn’t ask for better games through the Ro16 to finals. There were some brilliant upsets, and everyone had a great time. It was wonderful to be a part of it and a reason to advocate for many more large events in the future.

Addressing some of the uninformed whining: I had the pleasure of speaking in person with ByuN, Maru, Serral, ShowTime and RagnaroK. ByuN, Maru, Serral, and ShowTime all agreed that Terran is really strong right now. Serral doesn’t like Protoss, but RagnaroK said it’s easy to win against Protoss ZvP. It’s widely agreed in places incels don’t hang out that Protoss is the weakest race at the moment. There are mechanical difference between all the races, but Terran has received the most buffs since the game came out, and Zerg has received the most nerfs. That’s good, because Zerg was completely broken.

This takes me back to forum posts from 2012 where Avilo, King of Beta Males would start whine threads about how difficult it was to be a Terran. The answer to beating Protoss has always been widow mines (extra dmg vs. shields) and Ghosts (EMP slaughters them) and to make vikings to kill collosus. Now the Raven has been re-worked from a completely broken unit and has an ability that disables disruptors and collosus. You combine that with an EMP and the game is won. Terran have a hard counter for storms, shields, and disruptors. If you can’t figure that out, if you can’t figure how to snipe a shield battery or a nexus or use two control groups to attack in different places then you aren’t good enough to balance whine.

9 of the last 11 EPT Premier events have had Terrans in the finals. The remaining 2 were ZvP. There have only been 4 events in the last year where Protoss has made it to the finals. If Protoss players are as bad as you keep insisting they are, then you shouldn’t have any problem beating them.
NO GOOD TERRAN PROS ARE COMPLAINING THAT TERRAN IS UNDERPOWERED RIGHT NOW.

tl;dr: Grow up and stop whining and appreciate the fact that DreamHack Atlanta was amazing.

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22

5 years of winning gsl means nothing, every super tournament is won by protoss. get a life loser. seriously all you do is bring tournaments into this and cant back anything up. bunny played very good and was winning then hero wins with a broken race and goes ahead, terran has no instant bs, no crono boast crap, mules are not even an advantage but a disadvantage because then terran cant scan and see what the other opponent has. no protoss has won gsl? ever heard of super tournament where protoss been winning it . you must be new to sc2 too. p.s been playing and watching sc since broodwar 98 days.

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He Said collect your freewins. I said Well then why it took protoss 5 years to win gsl?

Super Tournament is Not gsl. It has the Name in it but thats about it.

They both played Well

Ah ok. Thats why your Profile says that you are Bad.

Cool Story Bro. Like it Matters If you suck at the Game :slight_smile:

Good terrans would know that you dont need to scan to See your Opponent. You know? You can Scout. Maybe try that.

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In the top 10 earnings of 2022 there is only one Protoss player… you guessed it… it’s herO… if you take in consideration facts, Protoss is not broken but I doubt you care about facts… Dark and Reynor did not compete this tournament and since Serral can’t win non-stop a non-zerg player finally won a Global event and you say that Protoss is broken… it’s sad

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All 6 Global events were won by Zerg players and when Reynor and Dark did not compete a non-zerg finally wins one… yes, balance is better, you are very smart.

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Im not saying Terran is UP, but the same design can be seen over and over, everything is down to kill Protoss before they get too far.

The game did not change in that, it is not the buffs and nerfs, it is how races are made and how they match. Nothing has changed between WoL and now about that. Ok In WoL you could actually all-in them but since LotV is all about macro guess who has the upper hand to ‘get that far’.

Why Maru and many Terrans just fall to players who are not having their experience? Just to not say less skilled but hero even though he was once good isnt the player I expect to normally win, nothing in his controls looked superior. Anyway not to make deal of it, upsets happen but the vs Maru match is an upset

Backseaters many, GM twitch chat too, those who actually played the game, not that many

Look im not saying DH was bad but the herO win vs Maru ugh disgusted me, as for the games vs Bunny I can say they were more even in their mistakes

Too bad there isnt any consistent Protoss for me to say, the guy played very well he deserved it! I do not hate on Protoss winning just for being Protoss, just dont see that great play from hero is why I complain about his win

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Your assertion that Maru has fallen to less-skilled players simply is not true. The only players who have beaten Maru in knockout stages of premier tournaments this year have been herO, Serral, Dark, and Zest who have all played at the top of their games and were widely accepted at the time to be the very top of their respective races. In fact, Dark, Serral, and Zest have all been world champions, and herO is the only Protoss able to win right now (like Maru in 2013, but Protoss in 2022)

If TvP was as broken as you incorrectly insist, Maru would have been roflstomped by Classic instead of cruising to an easy 3-0 against a former GSL champ today.

You’re basing your entire whine based on one player not being able to win, which is just absurd. Quit your whining. Some days players don’t play their best and get beaten, other days some players get lucky. Maru has only been knocked out of tournaments by people who eventually went on to win those tournaments. Nobody else can say that.

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If you look at mirror matchup performance, which shows SC2 performance without the bias of balance issues, Maru is by far the best player in SC2. His TvT is out of this universe. Serral by comparison has extremely poor ZvZ performance.

Including all matchups, the list goes as thus:

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What a horrible metric of comparison. Why would you think that?

Maru’s TvT is exceptional. His games this year against Cure and ByuN demonstrate that incontrovertibly. However, the mechanics of ZvZ in SC2 are completely different. Wins and losses come down to individual larvae counts. If a player fails to make a ling with one larvae they can instantly lose. If a player fails to make a drone they fall immeasurably behind, and players are forced to mirror each other much more. It’s much closer to being a coinflip than TvT or PvP where players can control outcomes easier.

Serral has a 67.7% winrate in ZvZ, 69.5% ZvT, and 72.4% ZvP.

Your thread on Serral’s greatness is valid. With 19 Premier tournament wins compared to Maru’s 13 he deserves significantly more consideration than given, but he’s playing what has widely been considered to be a stronger race and has never competed in GSL.

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You know, just a computer scientist with a background in statistics with tens of thousands of hours doing these kinds of research projects.

Fun fact, symmetrical matchup performance correlates with asymmetrical matchups more than asymmetrical matchups correlate with each other. Symmetrical matchups are a better indicator of skill, period.

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The statistics you pulled in the other thread were nice to read, but you should know as well as any that the metrics you set matter. ZvZ as a barometer of skill is not a great one. A better calculation would be: “How much better are they at the mirror matchup than the other most-accomplished pros” but you get into questions of what qualifies as “most accomplished.” How does Serral’s ZvZ match up to Dark, Rogue, etc?

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Factually false. Please see:

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Show your work.

Also, lol @:

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Do you know what a pearson correlation is?

EDIT: Here you go, boss:

https://i.imgur.com/mrDTSGb.png

As you can see, the various matchups are tightly correlated. If someone has low ZvZ performance, it’s because they aren’t very good.

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35

Well OK you are right about the ‘not playing their best’ that is why I dont do much balance talk because of GSL, exactly because less training and ‘not my day’ are factors.

But to think that herO is more or equally EXP or shape with Maru is wrong

Anybody who goes to do their mil service is forever behind in skill… herO is no exception.

You tell me how great herO is with all these mistakes that only Bunny would be equal in making.

as for Classic two factors:

  1. Classic is after mil service like everybody else cannot catchup in skill to those who did not go
  2. Yes Terran is not Terran 2018 balance is not that bad that Terr cant win or 3-0 when Maru is favored, the matchup still plays the same though, kill them before they get there (ez to get there nowadays with maps, more workers, Shield battery) , which is how the race matchup is made
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36

People say play like herO but they also admit it’s not that easy, no one came close to it, but never mind about that, what I would like to know is who are you to judge if a player is worthy of his earned victory ?

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Are you new or something? That is what the forum is about, Whether about balance or other reasons we say what we think about a player and his win…

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Oh ok… I was just wondering just how qualified you are to judge top game play, I guess you answered my question, what about this :

How is herO not consistent ?! before his military service he became the first player to win three IEM championships, winning IEM Season VIII - Singapore, IEM Season VIII - Sao Paulo and IEM Season IX - San Jose… he received a special award for achieving the most wins in two consecutive seasons of Proleague (2014/2015) then he then went on to reach top of the ranking in third consecutive season as well… and after his military service he won a GSL Code S, the first Protoss player to do so after 5 years and in the next season he got to the semi-finals.

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39

That is my point I remember hero[join] who was much better than the old herO (liquid?) but after military they are all broke. He made gold level mistakes on DH Atlanta. Yes again confirming how you win as toss

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You said that herO is not consistent and yet before Atlanta he won GSL Code S and the next season he got to the semi-finals where he lost to Maru… It looks like you are just messing around.