Counter to cannons behind mineral line in P vs P?

General Discussion
1

If you’re able to win games before the 2 minute mark, something is probably broken/beyond abusive. Especially when you don’t even need to make an army unit and the opponent hasn’t even expanded and even knows what you’re doing, in advance. In BW ladder, you were actually able to leave games before 2 minutes and have it count as a draw.

Either way, w/e this abomination is… it’s so stupid that it’s not fun to think about it. It makes you feel like an idiot for even thinking about it. It makes you feel like an idiot for even playing a game where this is a thing. It’s honestly depressing. I can’t give it much thought due to the above.

So, could one of you guys just tell me what the correct response/counter is to a guy whose purpose in life is making a cannon by your mineral line, in what could be 10 different spots for all you know?

Am I just supposed to take 99% of probes off mining to attack his probes before he has even made a building, and then just rely on winning from there cause… you know… the opponent is so distraught over not getting a free win before the 2 minute mark, that he’s going to be too busy crying to capitalize on the adv he got for… having his wish stopped…

Serious thread. I don’t know. Please help me. Do the dumb thinking for me. Thanks.

5 Likes
2

have 1 probe follow the probe and the very moment a pylon starts building behind your mineral line you stop attacking that probe and instead start body blocking building spots in the mineral line. Then you take 4 probes per pylon and attack them.

Make sure to check your ramp for cannons also in case there’s a follow up probe and do the same steps; 4 probes per pylon and 4 per cannon if they get placed.

Never, ever let them wall your mineral line. That’s auto GG if it completes in the mirror unless you get a magic ninja expand and somehow out macro them.

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This is what they do, though. There’s only like 10 places for them to make 3 pylons, in succession, and then place a cannon in there and, insult to injury, the building of the cannon also forces the probe out. So it’s not even stuck. The game was already over. I didn’t need the salt in the wound/middle finger on top of it.

Like I get it, it’s a clown fiesta party for them. But, could we like not have clown fiesta parties at our expense?

I feel like every time someone loses a game like this, they should be forced to live stream themselves having a pie smudged into their face for full effect. Gather around guys and laugh at me. I’m the guy stupid enough to play this game and lost to a shameful build that allows Plat leaguers to be GM. Hahaha.

From now on, here’s where I’m at. If I’m playing the “ProbeScouts” of the world, I’m just going to 12 gate by my nexus. Fastest possible zealot, etc, etc. Not going to bother scouting. Will I still probably lose? Probably, cause this strat is dumb, and cannon rushing has been inflating everyone’s MMR for how many years now… yet… no one wants to do anything about it cause “it’s funny.” Hahahhaha.

Reminds me of playing on Daybreak. Like anyone with 5 brain cells to their name had to have known the cannon rush behind the mineral line was broken. 2 pylons should never equal “you got owned son.” Thank god map makers at least had the decency to stop allowing this to happen. I guess even that is coming back, though.

Imagine spending 200 minerals in your opponent’s base and the game being over cause of it. “Bruh… you just gotta prevent him from making 200 minerals worth of buildings in your base.” Like asking me to solve every problem in the universe, except that one, would be about as fair or more doable, in my mind.

Anyways, had to vent. Anyone who cannon rushes shouldn’t even be allowed to talk about MMR. KingCobra, looking at you chump.

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Bruh scout and let all probe fight and you survive

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fastest possible zealot doesn’t help. You literally cannot let the wall behind the minerals complete, if you do, you can try to expand and hope it works out but that’s all you’ve got for play making once it’s completed.

The better option is to just react to the cheese properly; once the 1st pylon goes down behind ur mineral line; don’t let it complete and make sure the probe that’s running around died.

Also make sure that you’re not getting 2 pronged cannon rushed - and if you are, make sure you don’t run too many probes down the ramp to counter or you’ll just get walled outside of your base and lose like 60+ seconds or mining time.

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It can help. I mean, the guy has 3 pylons protecting one cannon. If you make the fastest possible zealot… you can take down a pylon and hope you have enough time to kill the cannon before it completes.

Ideally, you’re able to delay when the guy starts his first pylon enough. The whole thing is freaking stupid. Everyone should feel like an idiot for even having to ponder this stuff. It’s honestly such a jerk move to leave this filth in this game. Let’s just ignore what makes people the angriest in SC 2, outside of having to play maphackers that we don’t deal with, either…

Let’s just take this ProbeScout guy, for instance. For his career, he’s sub 50% vs Terran and Zerg. Vs Protoss, he has one of the best career % in all of GM. I, in 100% seriousness, created the freaking best build/meta for P vs P, which is the best build in the game. And this guy… who everyone knows is going to cannon rush has a higher career % than me.

A guy who isn’t even GM caliber. A guy who everyone knows what he’s going to do. So, in reality… you know what the best “build” is? Simply try to make a cannon behind your opponent’s mineral line. Tell me that’s not stupid?

It’s like trying to come up with this grand plan to rob a bank. Scheming for months. And then the dumbest person you’ve ever met just walks into the bank and says I’d like to enter your vault and take all your money. Cool? And the bank was like, no problem. We’ve been waiting for someone to take all our money.

So the guy who puts no effort into anything is able to just walk away with all the money in the bank, while everyone else is busy trying to actually strategize how to win. And, you’re just left, year after year, to think why? Why is this guy allowed to just waltz in there, drooling on himself and everyone else, and just walk out with the W?

Why don’t I just do that? Then, it’s like… why would anyone want to play a game that lame? There’s just nothing positive that goes through one’s mind. It’s just constant reminders of how messed up it is and how you wish it would stop. It’s aggravating.

Btw, you 100% can’t expand elsewhere vs this. I mean… come on. If you don’t believe you can make a zealot in time, how you going to expand in time? Not only does it come too late, but they’d just cannon that, too.

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Your zealot will complete when the cannon does, at which point it’s too late. That’s how you lose. You need to react to it by killing the building pylons.

1 Like
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I used to make the fastest possible gateway, on the lowground, at cannon rushers favorite spot to abuse. I know the fastest zealot kills their cannon, granted their probe doesn’t get hits on the zealot. If it does, then the cannon will win. They would make their cannon directly next to the gateway, not realizing that anyone could make a zealot fast enough to kill it, anyways. Or at least didn’t realize I made it fast enough.

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Cannon rush is just a flat out abusive strat to begin with, ESPECIALLY in PvP. I think the least amount of pylons needed to wall off the back of the mineral line is 4? The only thing you can really do is pray you get your probes in that cage in time. Otherwise, you have to pull everything to kill all the pylons and hope you make it in time.

3 Likes
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Sorry champ the cannon rush is as old as starcraft itself and this means we ABSOLUTELY can’t get rid of it. On the other hand we have a fantastic new co op commander for you to try, his name is Karax and is largely based around cannon rushing Amon. Give it a try!

5 Likes
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Sounds like you haven’t vs’d good cannon rushers, just ones who put their brains on autopilot after seeing Gaulzi do silly stuff. Fastest gateway doesn’t beat cannon rush, that’s why everyone and their mother says attack the pylon with 4 probes.

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He’s dodging the obvious KingCobra verse Playa show match for that very reason…

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I’ve played SC 2 for years, in GM. If I’m not playing vs the good cannon rushers, who is? I’ve made threads before were I tallied the statistics of every known cannon rusher, and it’s obvious… it’s been the best ladder strat in LotV in P vs P. It dominates GM…

I don’t even understand what you’re saying… When you make the fastest zealot possible… you’re still going to attack their pylon with 4 probes, lol. What?

People probably don’t say make fastest gateway, because, you know… you’d only want to do that if you knew you were getting cannon rushed 100%. Otherwise… it’s not even an option. It’s a meta game.

This is what you did in HotS and it worked due to the nature of chrono. Now, everything is worse. There are no great options, hence this thread and their ABSURD win rates.

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You’ve never played team games then champ… sure 1v1 produces better players but team games produces better maps for cannon rushing. You know how they got rid of low ground wall offs in WOL due to walling off against Zerg? Yeah imagine only needing 1 pylon and the cannon was in range of your mineral line. There was also always a 12p/3 rax reaper while some dumb a on your team that provides all the good advice while pinging constantly.

4 Likes
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Mr. Playa: ask kindy KingCobra what is the correct strategy to counter that playstyle. As about fair or not SC/SC2 is a rough approximation of the Real-World Conflict.
Caanon Rush is a kind of Color-Revolution kindly presented to you by yours truly CIA.
You defeat your victim without the need to face him into battle.
In the nature something like that is found in the way the Wasp kills the Tarantula.

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Well the other option is you’re lying…

I mean literally, cannon rushes beat fastest gateway because the cannon finishes just before the zealot does…this is why the correct response is probe pull and don’t let a pylon finish. This is literally something you learn in gold league…

1 Like
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Lying? You guys who keep up with this lying narrative while never having actually caught me in a single freaking lie, given it never happens, should be banned. There’s no excuse for this.

When you go 12 pylon, you can go 27 second gateway on the low ground. If a guy makes a cannon directly next to it (that’s what they do), your chrono’d zealot will kill it nearly every time, by itself. You just gotta avoid wasting too much time on killing a probe or not take too much damage from a probe.

You’re acting like a guy can make a cannon in your base before he even has a forge or the other guy is just spawning with a probe in your base. Use some sense.

Ofc I’m going to attack his pylon with probes. What kind of idiot wouldn’t? Don’t worry dawg, since I made my zealot faster… it’s cool. It will kill the pylon and the cannon by itself. It might even go on a lunch break after it kills the pylon. Got all the time in the world.

What do you want to do, ideally, after you killed the guys pylon with 4 probes? Let your zealot attack it. You usually don’t have the surface area for 4 probes and a zelaot to attack a cannon. It’s usually just a zealot. The faster you can kill the plyon, the faster you can start working on killing the cannon. The faster you got a zealot out, the faster you can start killing the cannon. It’s not rocket science.

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LMAO, he does the exact same thing vs Terran too. I’m pretty sure he can’t play standard, so if you can get to about 30 supply you’ve probably beaten him.

2 Likes
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Heard a pro saying before (don’t remember who it was) that you need to pull EVERY SINGLE WORKER to kill the buildings ASAP. Cannons right at your face like that require more commitment from the defender than pulling a few workers.

Regardless, Cannon Rush is beyond broken and it is a shame for an RTS game that you can lose without having even your first army unit out. For some reason, Blizztard developers think Cannon Rush is a fun strategy. Guess what? They don’t play the game, ever. Not even at low league.

2 Likes
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Even as someone who builds on the low ground, it took me a while to even figure out how to beat the cannon rushers who simply start on the low ground and target my gateway/cyber. And you don’t even have to defend/pull workers vs that.

The closer the cannon rush starts to your nexus, the fewer options you have. When 2 or 3 pylons being made = gg… There’s just not much you can do but “overdefend.” Like there’s no such thing as overdefending in such a scenario, because you have no choice. Thus, it’s basically a win/win for them. Either you lose too much in mining or they straight up beat you then and there.

It’s so frustrating. They can bail on the cannon rush at anytime, basically, and just steal at least one of your gases and now you’re even behind in tech, too.

Every loss I have now vs Toss is due to some form of cannon rushing. And… I’m one of the better players on ladder at beating cannon rushing…

I wish they would do something, be it not being able to make cannons along the perimeter of a base or just implement something like cannons can’t be started until 1:25 into the game, whether you have a forge or not. They should have done something.

You shouldn’t have to try try to meta game a simple cheese build that causes everyone anguish. Even pros who try to “meta game,” end up losing more times than not vs these “cannon pros.” Every year, it’s the same thing. A super high level player has to try to play customs with the printf’s of the world, cause they have no idea how to beat it. Same broken record.

Printf can’t even beat anyone when they cannon rush him, whether he is cannon rushing or playing standard. It’s ridiculous. They literally have zero idea how to beat it, yet… that’s not supposed to tell you anything?

I really, really just hate cannon rushing by the minerals more than anything. The game just started and it’s already minus 2000 cause “dude made a pylon.” Give me a break man. Earn your points, my god. No one should have to tell anyone that this is stupid.

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