So much this… haha I’ve been saying the same - look at representations say in playoffs (Ro16 Ro8), not finals cause there will be always 2 races 1 will miss in finals DUH,
and I see posters saying ‘but X won, 4 GSL’s etc’ … it’s like arguing what is better today’s technology and arguing with scientists from say the renaissance time.
I don’t know if it ever anyone’s end goal to qualify. When I watch a sport I don’t just think how great it was they we are playing but not winning the finals. I think something is wrong if tons of Toss are moving to the final but never winning. I am slow low on the ladder these changes won’t really effect me, so I will just see how they play out.
Just remove protoss from the game already, why shoulld I bother hoping my ffavorit race to pickk up any time aftr this disgusting nerfs
Immortals should be a gateway unit. With the way they go with zealots, it should have just been the new dragoon. Stalkers should have been more of a harass unit than anything. Colossus is just a huge design blunder, it is the unit Protoss needs vs Zerg, but the unit they will never be able to use because of its clunky functionality. I think redesigning the Stalker/Immortal would be the single greatest thing they could do for Protoss. Make one a strong harass unit and the other a tank support for zealots, and right there is a good recipe for a composition and micro straight from the gateway.
I have to say, I am very impressed. Much, much better than the first draft and, not to be too rude here, but better than what I usually expect to see from the balance team for this game. I’ve noticed a tendency to drag heels in the ground and commit to controversial changes, trying to balance around them rather than directly addressing the problems themselves. Not with these changes though.
-Stim reduction is one of the only ones I’m not so sure about because of the risks to ZvT, but I’m guessing it’s being done to match the warp gate reduction. This is probably the only example of ‘dragging heels’ that I can see in this patch. Would’ve liked to see the warpgate buff removed instead of stim reduced, otherwise we risk having to buff ling speed down the road and round and round we go.
-EMP upgrade is something I can’t really comment too much on without experiencing the new interactions in the lategame and seeing what practical impact this has on the range war.
-Interceptor buff makes sense as long as we’re careful. Carriers were broken for far too long, don’t let that happen again.
-Recall change is also good, toss should have that ability because of how they’re forced to clump their army into a deathball style to protect their valuable robo units but it needs to be punishable, not an adept shade ability for the entire army lol.
-IT change makes much more sense than what was proposed before.
-Prism range instead of removing fast warp in also makes muuuuuch more sense, this is probably the best revision of this patch. Removing fast warp in essentially removes prism openers from the game, but the pickup range was the main issue. I’d say the second biggest issue is the power of charge all ins and the charge change addresses that.
-OL speed buff is um… unexpectedly smart. I’m honestly shocked, I haven’t really seen many people talking about this but it’s so relevant to the issues with ZvP. And to be honest, it’s been a long long time coming. OL speed hasn’t been used very much since 2016 and the giant wrench it throws into your build order is the reason why. This change is great. Just to give some alternatives in case testing proves it isn’t quite right:
*50/50 would probably be too cheap, zergs would just get it every game except for zvz.
*100/50 would be very low gas investment but still a high enough mineral cost that zergs wouldn’t get it every game.
*Reducing the research time to something like 36 seconds would lower the impact on queen production and also allow zergs to delay mining the gas for it, indirectly lowering the impact the cost has on build orders
-Prism cost is another surprising change that has been a long time coming. I’m a bit confused as to why it isn’t a gas cost being added but whatever. Been a long time that everyone has been saying the prism is too cheap so this is good.
You guys should be in Dumb and Dumber. Ya man toss doesn’t have any units that benefit from good positoining or micro. Every single toss unit is a a move melee unit. It’s no wonder you think there is nothing wrong with canons.
Sorry, that is just you needing to learn to play. The cannon tears are so insignificant nobody but like 4-5 of you are even talking about it. Get better at the game, and you won’t die to cannon rushes. Signed by your favorite neighborhood 3700 D2 who hasn’t lost to a cannon rush in years.
Ya i heard cannon rushes are pretty rough in gold.
I heard cannon rushes aren’t winning GSL. Gee wonder why? Oh that is right, they are held by silver level mechanics.
I don’t want to toot my own horn, but since noone else will do it. I was right on asking the warp prism range being nerfed from 6 to 5 among several others that asked for this nerf too a while back. I am glad the balance team is implementing this change. Proposal #2 is way better and more fair than proposal #1.
However, to be completely honest, the two main essential changes in this proposal are the EMP buff from 1.5 to 2 radius and the pickup range nerf from 6 to 5. These two changes need to be implemented for sure. The rest of the changes I am uncertain and I worry if some of them might be overkill.
Speaking of cannon rushes… I’ll upload a game vs it today.
I had to expand at 1:30 in the game. I had to make sure to not mine ANY gas, whatsoever, and only take 1 geyser. I had to cut probes. I also had to force the opponent to start the cannon rush on the low ground and make 3 pylons and even 2 cannons on the low ground.
I also had to make sure I made my cyber at my proxy expand, instead of at my base. Then, I also made him cancel a cannon that was placed too far forward (not protected by low ground cannon).
Despite the “perfect start,” his cannons were still able to attack my nexus before my expansion was done. Thus, had to take a lot of probes off mining. Then, I was able to chrono out a stalker a split second before a cannon unpowered my gateway.
This is what it takes to beat a cannon rush. You have to play a perfect game and and put a lot of thought into everything you do, while also getting lucky. The cannon rusher? Figure out the spots that you can wall a cannon on a map and then do so. That alone wins you more than 50% of games.
It’s silly and obviously dumb, but you’ve seen infestors. This “bug” must have been in the game for the past few years. It obviously makes no difference to the balance team if something is ridiculous – as long as there is a Toss victim involved.
i think these two changes won’t have the intended effect you’re going for here honestly, all ins will still just be as powerful as they are now except with -1 range to the warp prism if you go for this particular change. (except the zealot change which is pretty big).
Haha I saw that too. "Uhh Infested Terrans ignoring armor was actually a bug. We were so used to zerg armies tearing through toss that we didn’t think to look. Our bad. " Pretty sad when the big nerf to zerg is actually just fixing a bug.
That’s a pretty huge nerf to chargelots; there was a reason the impact damage on charge was added in the first place. They don’t get many attacks in outside of charge, so it’s close to them losing 1/3 of their damage. It’s also a significant nerf to harass, as 2 charges from zealots will no longer kill workers.
It’s not like charge all ins are dominant in the game right now, or zealots are dominating the field with their damage, and with stim getting the research time reduced, this’ll be a particularly significant change in PvT, where already strong timings from Terran will be hitting slightly earlier. The combination of the charge nerf and stim buff could very easily swing the match up heavily into the favor of the Terran.
The combination of all of the nerfs to Protoss will probably be too much. PvZ is already Zerg favored, and PvT isn’t that far in Protoss’s favor.
Just the nerfs to the warp prism are enough to have a huge impact in PvZ, where Protoss is currently so reliant on those mid game all ins to win the game, because the late game is basically impossible.
I think I remember when they used to talk about units being “too well rounded.” What is the counter to an infestor? What is even a soft counter? Queen: good vs everything. Infestor: hard counters everything. The race of double standards, where they can do no wrong.
I still can’t get over that they made the nydus INVINCIBLE. I’ve never seen anything that dumb in a game before. I’ll never get over that. Invincible during construction and then queens pop out, left and right, and… continue making it invincible. And this is fine, for years?
They need to unban Life. The real match fixers are the balance team. Life probably just felt bad for winning all those games with infestors. Trying to make things right (obviously joking about Life…).
Honestly, you really have to lean towards them wanting Zerg to be imbalanced to ensure “foreigner relevancy.” Surely, no one can be this blind/biased. Like… a balance team guy really can’t care THAT much about whether he can get to Platinum league or not, lol.
The rationale for getting rid of the initial charge damage was to make zerglings more sustainable as if someone was crying abut them not being effective. Also, pretty funny how now all of a sudden Blizz wants to tone down harass and the only race whose harass gets nerfed is toss.
Meanwhile Blizz thinks that zerg spending 100 minerals to scout is too big of a sacrifice for zerg. Terran gets stronger all in timings and more effective ghosts. Toss must be the red headed stepchild or something.
Never understood that either. Just imagine if warp prisms were invulnerable. The only difference being that zerg can move his whole army through the nydus.
Exactly. It would be like in Broodwar if you made arbiters invincible, and you allowed them to teleport entire armies. Moreover, you made it to where you could make arbiters 3 minutes into the game and recall already came researched.
If this isn’t dumb, what’s dumb? This has to be bottom 1 percentile stuff. No?
all this while they root for “moaaaar defenders advantaaaaaaage”. guess thats only meant for zerg. Fine nerf toss all ins but then nerf nydus and nydus+sh.
When zerg make units and add units to group controll, they not want add larva to group, we need to get mouse in bottom area and CTRL+on cocon.
Can you add option to add only cocon, without larva ?