Community Update - July 1, 2019

[PouTre-2459]

The whole game is badly designed tbh lol…
the BC rush is stupid
the nydus
the swarmhost
the zealot, and so on…

Warpgate has always been then main protoss concern since day 1 and before LoTV they tested the autoinjects on queens…

I wish the SC2 balance team would play their own game and watch a lot of SC2 games but obviously this is not the case

When will you stop buffing/nerfing the Carrier ?
You are simply clueless

[KyunG-2893]

@BlackCat-22448

No way? Rush storm and Sentrys (Disruptor is very hard to control) - GG
Sentrys and 1, 1 single VoidRay - gg
+3 atack stalkers - gg
1 immortal, sentrys and ShieldBattery - GG
6-12 Oracles - GG

U really sure u cant defend it? Only with a prism lol?

For me the problem is not the prism, is the forcefield.
FF - GG

Lolwat ? Storm does nothing to roach armies, voidrays is the same, has low DPS is very heavily affected by armor (oh oh guess what roaches have base armor)
+3 attack stalkers ? At like what ? 8 minutes into the game ? LUL.
Yeah oracles, like any zerg is dumb enough to not just straight up murder your economy and win the game because :

1. Oracles deal bonus damage to light, not armored
2. Oracles need energy to shoot so you just run away for the time that they activate or straight up engage and split units in each mineral line

I’m not sure one immortals sentrys and shieldbattery can win against 200/200 supply worth of army to be honest, but you know just an opinion right there.

[WinterFoX-21498]

Cannon rush is easy to counter, and once stopped it’s an easy win.

[BlackCat-22448]

So the answer is, Buff stim, buff Carriers, nerf infested terans.
Gj.

[Cauthon-11697]

@Mystical-11617

• No fix for the clearly overpowered Nydus Worm (Dark vs. Trap Grand FInals). Breaks ZvP and also makes TvZ mech difficult when paired with Swarm Hosts (TY vs. Serral).

dark vs trap was a mismatch because trap didn’t belong in the finals.

[Seizon-11575]

Losing a game before having the first unit out in the field is one of the most frustrating experiences I ever had in the game. Can’t believe CR is untouched and remain broken after all these years of SC2. Unfortunately, Blizzard will not fix it unless someone wins Blizzcon with it.

[WarlockX-1595]

@Trias-2243

— Free units should be less efficient than costly ones ! An infested terran should DPS less than a marine (half less even considering they’re only 25 energy), an autoturret’s DPS should be inferior to a landed viking, and SH’s locusts should individually be less effective than half an hydra. Free units should be used as worker harass and as meatshields ; seeing those units force deathballs to backdown, and take out capital ships and expands in the blink of an eye seems like nonsense !

What you’re saying doesn’t make sense. Who would ever build a swarm host if it only had the dps of a single hydra for 18 s with a 43 s cooldown. With a +50% higher cost and supply.

The units they spawn are not free, they take up supply. They would only be free if the swarm host it’s self was able to do anything else other then spawn locus. You can basically think as each locus taking up 1.5 supply and you realize they aren’t so great.

[IskariotE-2354]

Like u r the guy with the most knowledge about the game

[Espurr-2173]

Buffing Stimpack will not create new openers, it will further push Terrans into bio and Stim timing attacks. If people can safely transition from a tech-based opener into bio pushes, why not pick a bio-push that hits much earlier instead? Why bother with other openings? Why transition from anything when you can ramp up earlier?

This change might increase Terran winrates in the short run, but in the long run, Protoss and Zerg players will learn to deal with it. Then Terrans will be in the same spot as before - losing their midgame bio army to a lategame army designed to counter it.

[Insomniac-1796]

While warp prism needs a nerf but I think range reduction is the right way to go. I agree with the recall need but most of other changes are terran players being lazy, whiny divas instead of you know adapting.

[HappyRogue-2114299]

I dont know why blizzard is taking opinion from streamers like beastyQT. He is not even good in the game.

[Eclipse2095-1798]

@Procyon-11207

If parasitic bomb is to be kept, then Tempests should have AA splash attacks as a counter.

If tempest AA had splash, Vikings wouldn’t exist

Parabomb needs a bit of a nerf but that’s about it

[Mateus-1852]

Doesn´t matter!

Terrans will cry again anyway. Hear my words.

[anon79962274]

@SCIIBalanceTeam

Terran

• Stimpack upgrade research duration decreased from 121 to 100 seconds.

In early Wings of Liberty, we increased the research duration of the Stimpack upgrade in order to temper the strength of 3-rax openers in TvP, which at the time was difficult for Protoss players to defend against, especially at lower levels. Fast forward to today, where the addition of Adepts and Shield Batteries, along with changes to Stalkers and starting economy, have drastically altered the build’s dynamics. That said, a common complaint in TvP is Terran’s difficulty in punishing a fast Protoss third, and we believe a revert to this change could help to address it by:

• Creating new openers that Protoss will have to account for.
• Allowing Terran to more seamlessly transition from tech-based openings to a Bio-based mid-game.
• And perhaps most importantly: reducing the window in which the upgrade can be sniped.

Our concerns surrounding this change revolve around overly increasing the power of 2-base Tank all-ins in TvP as a side-effect, and overly impacting TvZ, partly by effectively speeding up the timing at which Combat Shields comes online.

After having more time to think it over, this Stim change does more harm than good in TvP for the following reasons:

1. Bio players already have no problem transitioning into a bio mid game.

2. It encourages more bio play in a match up dominated by bio play to a point where it’s a big reason why Terrans are suffering in the match up since Protoss has the tools to deal with it and know how to deal with it. TvP Mech needs to shine instead of always Bio 24/7.

The only way I could see this Stim change opening things up is if you go stim bio against early Protoss and transition into Mech. But the odds of players doing that or figuring that out is low.

Overall, this Stim change will do more harm than good for the TvX match ups.

[imc7r-2764]

Overall good changes but I will add what else seems wrong in design

@SCIIBalanceTeam

Terran

• Stimpack upgrade research duration decreased from 121 to 100 seconds.

2-1-1 back?

It is weird that this is considered a solution to Terran economy, otherwise it is a nice change but im not sure it is targeting the improvement of terran economy.

A possible change (because MULE buffs would make them too strong for all-ins) is
decreasing Command Center cost by 50 or 100 minerals?
It would allow for more mineral for either the army or a 3rd base which may put Terran more even to Z and P in terms of 3 bases.

@SCIIBalanceTeam

New upgrade: Enhanced Shockwaves: Increases the radius of the Ghost’s EMP Round from 1.5 to 2. Cost: 150/150. Research time: 79 seconds.

of course a buff feels good, but is there anyone who complains that EMP is not enough? I think anyone with Ghosts EMPs plenty of area, the problem comes with newer Templars that have the energy to cast few extra storms. It may help vs storms but I’m not sure if this is pro/higher league issue or just low level issue.

@SCIIBalanceTeam

Nexus Strategic Recall cooldown increased from 85 to 130 seconds.

Yes… im glad you ack-ned that Recall should give around t he same possibility as MSC not more, right now recall can be used much more… So good change.

Warp Prism change may affect PvZ more but it helps in TvP as well, it might allow for better matchup.

Few things that could be looked into for Terran:
Thor is used as the god mode of Anti-Air, too slow and yet high damage for both splash and single target. Idea: Nerf Thor’s High Impact, or AoE and instead:

Liberator is ofc good for Zoning as Anti-Ground but its AA is lacking. Vikings are good for single shots but again, not very good Anti-Air if not in larger numbers or to counter Splash.

Give either an opportunity for better AA splash - at the cost of Thor nerf? Either an upgrade of Viking or Liberator's Ballistic Missiles upgrade to buff its AA too?

Can nerf Viking Assault Mode to improve its anti-air

I think Thor being the only good Anti-Air instead of any of the air units makes it weird. This unit is not fun to use, Lib was supposed to be like Valkyrie’s AA not?

That’s all, certainly not bad changes for TvP.

[anon79962274]

@Eclipse2095-1798

If tempest AA had splash, Vikings wouldn’t exist

The original design of the Tempest had that, but was quickly changed.

[Eclipse2095-1798]

@Terkea-21276

The carries were unstoppable back in a day a you just brought that back and besides you reduce the range of the infested terrans. In what universe is that fair?

The only place carriers are unstoppable is in bronze league.

Plus infested terrans have been the root of why late game pvz and pvp is so hard but you’re complaining about the nerf not being enough

In what universe is it fair to have free units decimate capital ships?

[GospelToss-6908]

Yes please - It’s too reliable for the Z, and SH is just obnoxious.

[anon79962274]

@SCIIBalanceTeam

• New upgrade: Enhanced Shockwaves: Increases the radius of the Ghost’s EMP Round from 1.5 to 2. Cost: 150/150. Research time: 79 seconds.

We receive a lot of feedback on why TvP is perceived to favor Protoss in the late game, and a constant throughout is the raw direct strength of the late-game Protoss army. We believe the proposed change will not only help Terran in direct engagements, but also shift the age-old zoning relationship between Ghosts and Templar a bit more in the Ghost’s favor.

Our decision to try this change out as an upgrade instead of a baked-in improvement stems from not wanting to impact the strength of 3-base Terran all-ins in TvP or Templar-based mid games. Even as an upgrade, we’ll be monitoring the effects of this change closely, as it would also impact TvZ, a matchup where Ghosts are already perceived to be a very powerful late-game unit.

Zerg

• Infested Terran Infested Rockets damage decreased from 14 to 12.

The feedback we’ve received surrounding Zerg’s perceived late-game advantage in ZvP centers a lot around Infested Terrans and their ability to fight Interceptors. As part of patch 4.0, we gave Infested Terrans a more powerful anti-air weapon precisely for this purpose, but after the Carrier changes last year, we’d like to adjust the power of the Infested Terran accordingly. After this change, it’ll take an additional shot for Infested Terrans to kill Interceptors at most upgrade levels.

Protoss

• Carrier Interceptor build time decreased from 11 seconds to 9 seconds.

For similar reasons as above, we’d like to scale back the increase to the Interceptor’s build time from last year’s post-BlizzCon patch. Combined with the Infested Terran change, we’ll keep an eye how much the needle will move in terms of Protoss’s ability to fight Zerg in the late game.

• Nexus Strategic Recall cooldown increased from 85 to 130 seconds.

While it’s cool that Protoss can utilize Strategic Recall to reposition their armies between their bases, we believe they can currently do so too frequently. This change is intended to more punish Protoss players who are consistently out of position against multi-pronged harass.

Implement these changes in the next patch. You’ve struck gold with these Balance Team.

I suspect you will also have a couple of good balance changes in the set that is coming out on the 15th. This means you should take the “best of both worlds” and combine the best changes from both into one really good balance update.

@SCIIBalanceTeam

Terran

• Stimpack upgrade research duration decreased from 121 to 100 seconds.

In early Wings of Liberty, we increased the research duration of the Stimpack upgrade in order to temper the strength of 3-rax openers in TvP, which at the time was difficult for Protoss players to defend against, especially at lower levels. Fast forward to today, where the addition of Adepts and Shield Batteries, along with changes to Stalkers and starting economy, have drastically altered the build’s dynamics. That said, a common complaint in TvP is Terran’s difficulty in punishing a fast Protoss third, and we believe a revert to this change could help to address it by:

• Creating new openers that Protoss will have to account for.
• Allowing Terran to more seamlessly transition from tech-based openings to a Bio-based mid-game.
• And perhaps most importantly: reducing the window in which the upgrade can be sniped.

Our concerns surrounding this change revolve around overly increasing the power of 2-base Tank all-ins in TvP as a side-effect, and overly impacting TvZ, partly by effectively speeding up the timing at which Combat Shields comes online.

@SCIIBalanceTeam

• Warp Prisms no longer start with the Warp Conduit passive ability and warp-ins will take 11 seconds when not near a Warp Gate or Nexus, up from 4.
• The Gravitic Drive upgrade now has the additional functionality of granting Warp Prisms the Warp Conduit passive ability, reducing warp-in time from 11 to 4.

Currently, the discourse surrounding ZvP seems to center primarily around the number of powerful early-game Protoss openings. Not only does Protoss have a high number of tech options, they also have many of variations of Immortal all-ins that require different responses. Though we believe all these attacks to be theoretically defendable, the margin of error for the defender might be too low.

There are a few ways to address this, such as improving Zerg early-game scouting or weakening some of Protoss’ early-game options. For the first iteration of the testing tab, however, we’d like to try a more experimental change intended to reinforce the concept of defender’s advantage in all Protoss matchups.

Defender’s advantage is a tricky thing to balance in an RTS, as shifting it too much in favor of the attacker creates overly aggressive games. Meanwhile, shifting it too much in favor of the defender results in more turtle situations. Currently, we believe PvZ is in a state where defender’s advantage is not sufficient for the Zerg player in the early game, when scouting can often be limited to a Zergling running into the Protoss army exiting their base. Because of the short response time and Protoss’ fast warp-in mechanic, the sum of Zerg’s defender’s advantages at that point may not be enough.

Another example of low defender’s advantage is the PvP matchup where both sides to have access to similar reinforcement time with Gateway units. While the defender has better access to Stargate and Robotics unit reinforcements, Gateway units have become more powerful over time and thus better equipped to deal with low numbers of high-tech units. We feel this can inhibit players from feeling safe enough to invest in establishing more bases over more units. With these changes, we believe games are more likely to pass the 3-base mark and Robotics Bay-based play could become more common.

Scrap the Stim change and the Warp Prism change. Stim is going to break many things and the Warp Prism change simply doesn’t solve the real problems(pick up range and also the fact that in deploy mode it can still pick up and carry units) with it and what the nerf to the WP does is heavily impact the ability for Protoss to harass Zerg.

Both these changes are going to cause serious problems and that is why so much feedback is against them while the other changes in this set are praised and no one really has any issues with them.

[anon79962274]

@GospelToss-6908

and SH is just obnoxious.

SH design is the main problem, not the Nydus.