you are right, but comeon thats not a lot of 5 seconds. especially with the meta, i mean double drop purely not the strong build now, its ok boost it a little, but only a little. and please dont forget transition and scv countity
What don’t understand is that a lot of feedback they have been getting is Protoss economy is the problem in TvP.
But then Terran gets another 150/150 cost to the build orders and Protoss gets another upgrade for free?
1-2 Raven anti-armor missile and 1-2 EMP the Protoss mid and late game army is done. Throw in Raven disables on Protoss units and Protoss literally can’t do anything but run away and pray stim marines, a tier 1 unit, doesn’t destroy them.
Terrans are the biggest babies because they have to build 2 extra units other than Marines, Maruaders Medivacs…
Let’s not even talk about if they put mines into that mix… Terrans just suck and whine.
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The intent behind the stim change seems to be to reign in the Protoss economy by making it suicidal to take a fast third.
I guess it depends on wether the new timings just kill greedy play or if they kill everything.
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The economy in the MIDGAME is a problem in TvP not the late game. The only economic problem in TvP is that Protoss can take a greedy third and Terran can’t punish it without going all in, which puts Protoss ahead for the rest of the game. The Ghost change is for the late game. It’s not meant to be a midgame upgrade that’s why it’s a separate upgrade.
Your Protoss “upgrade for free” is such a dumb statement because it’s now requiring research for something Protoss originally had on the unit baseline.
Honestly, you lack so much understanding of what is actually going on in the match up and I doubt you even read Blizzard’s reasoning for the changes they proposed; so I honestly I have to ask what you are even doing in this thread to begin with.
Go read the entire post before you make comments.
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They seem didnt take account the HeroMarine vs Zest game HSC 3 base Terran vs 5 base mass chargelot with robo theres no Direct Counter vs Mass Chargelot well i hope this Large EMP will basically help a bit .
As basically who have a hard time defending Chargelot openings is basically OP to me w/ warp prism flying to my main and nerfing the flying WP is a great help in the early stages of the game is a big help to us but i honestly can say its a Learn to play issue so mid game attack is a no no to me if a toss opens up with chargelot than blink stalkers . I just wait for good number of key units like ghost or libs.
Why is blizzard a big fan of pulling scv in TVP ? Dont you guys know its basically all your fault that Terrans pull scv and wins . Its basically a design flaw.
WP pick up range is a design intended for defending and attacking being toss in general and intended micro design for the unit so you can’t basically nerf the pick up range .
Dont you find it absurd 150 supply roach ravager defended by a couple of toss units and Prism and 6 immortals microed w/ sentry thats supposed to defend why not just wait with infestors then before disposing those roaches?
What makes it strong is warping units in mass in early stages of the game its like a tank drop opening harass Flying Tanks with Medivac that basically puts you in an odd position since you basically forced a tech , position your unit entirely or a unit out of you to defend it big commitment in terms of early stages of the game
Lastly stim if it makes me no need to make more tanks early stages of the game since it take forever upgrade it is a good change problem is im pigeon hold to make more tanks for every opening i make like 2 quick helions to tank defend then bio Widow mine drop to then tankS defend again and again against early mass stalker to blink openers since they can definitely see my entire tech after the opener with hallucinated phoenix.
What i really wanted to know from devs is who should control or have the upper hand in early stages of the game in TvP if both P and T open up wiith same timing and expand behind it. Back then proxy double cyclone dilemma prevent them from being more agressive scout more for proxy like how terrans scout with reaper in the entire map to look for proxy as well. They were in equal terms back then in early stages of the game. Its like this i open up with a proxy rax reaper 2 gas to factory then cc a toss go offensive also proxy gate he just defended my reaper recall stalker is that fair? does proxying punish terran player yes im punished delayed cc means eco damage delalyed add ons delayed tech ?? does nothing to toss just equals it out with just mana on nexus is that fair proxy gate pylon minerals but does it delay eco ?! does it delay tech !? Let them have an upgrade strategic recall on nexus like how drop speed overlords being visible and are justified in lair tech. And Terran in order to easily defend cannon rush u have to scout with your 1st scv that comes out or basically pull one scv from start of the game outriight if you saw a forge block the ramp with 1st the incoming probe . to block vision of cannon rush on ramp . Makes cannon rush useless if a toss just does a gate instead u are behind since you scout so early eco damage as well right? This is one of the reasons 1 in order to play TVP well u have to scout more earlier since Gate proxy doesnt punish a Toss players since recall exist in the early stages of the game.
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So true! Voids (& stalkers, in most cases) are ![:poop:](https://d212vo0owly06i.cloudfront.net/en/sc2/images/emoji/twitter/poop.png?v=6" ":poop:")
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Don’t make us pay 150/150 and 79 seconds just for an EMP buff. Bake it in to the EMP itself at 1.75 radius
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The issue is the zealot in TvP. The recall and prism changes are good but please do something about the strength of the zealot.
What you say supply-wise is true for the first wave of locust. Except, the issue isn’t the supplies, but the cost. As long as you don’t lose your SH, you could suicide them wave after wave, and unlike the hydras, for zero cost.
A SH costs 100/75, and an hydra 100/50, which is nearly the same. If you launch and lose four locust waves against an army or defenses, SH waves costs becomes 25/17.5… while doing more DPS than an hydralisk. Even more efficient, while one fourth of the cost, this is what doesn’t makes sense.
What I’m suggesting isn’t to nerf them without any compensation, but rather to redesign them so that they become only interesting against undefended workers, or as meatshield ; by making them tanky/lasting longer but severly reducing their DPS. Another way would be to make the SH carrier like, with more locusts, and a cost for each of them.
Harass units shouldn’t tank down heavily defended nexuses/PFs in seconds, free units shouldn’t outperform costly one ; that is my point. You’re free to think otherwise if you will. =)
Well grats on your 6k MMR. You’re tired of people not as good as you discussing the game? I’ll let you know if I ever start caring what you’re tired about lol.
I didn’t say I’ve never lost to cannons. I said there are a dozen ways to beat cannon rushes. If you see them so often, maybe idk, practice beating it? Because guess what? The gap between you and pros is even bigger than the gap between your skill and my skill, and pros aren’t complaining about it at all.
Beyond that, your comment is completely useless. I don’t care what you think about diamond players’ skill. If you have something relevant to say, then say it. I’m willing to bet you don’t.
Low level trolling. I’m playing pros, while you’re busy talking about “dozens of ways to beat cannon rushing.” A guy with a career high of Diamond league talking about how there’s so many ways to beat the highest win rate strategy on ladder (it’s not even close mind you)…
If you could actually beat the hardest strat on ladder, with any proficiency, then you wouldn’t be in Platinum league. The whole premise is a joke. I watched Showtime get absolutely destroyed by cannon rushing, while commenting about how awfully executed the cannon rush was.
I watched printf lose game after game to cannon rushing, when he tried playing standard. But, no… antisora knows better.
Even random GM’s who’d be in Diamond league without cannon rushing beat Neeb.
If everything is so easy to you, you shouldn’t have any issue getting out of Diamond league. News flash: you’re full of it. I don’t need to let you know when I care about what you think.
The perk of being bad is you never have to play anyone who is any good, thus you can act like everything is easy, while being bad. Awesome.
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For those concerned about 2-1-1: 2-1-1 timing is based on the resources to get the Medivacs and 16 Marines as soon as possible. Having the stim to finish earlier will have no impact no the timing whatsoever as the limitation is the Medivacs and 16 Marines out.
Blizzard buffed Blink which is as impactful as Stim and everybody was okay with. The thing is Terran doesn’t have diversity of openers anymore. The only viable opener Terran have right now is 1-1-1 with hellions involved, specially on TvZ.
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The blink buff got reverted after blink timings in PvT were imbalanced.
Yes I’ve tried it continuously it’s still a 5 minute timing no matter what. People are under the impression that a 211 will hit 21 seconds earlier when it’s already an incredibly tight build order. I think it will have far bigger impact in regards to 111 bio tank all ins.
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Can we please remove the tiers and the MMR promotion thing cause its making ladder way less competitive as is. Ladder ain’t like it used to be where you would always see someone if not maybe almost 90-80% of the division trying to get rank 1 in their division and had to be around rank 1 to get promoted out of their league or promoted from learning and beating a higher ranked opponent than them. Cause looking at points in your own ladder division now feels 100% useless compared to what it used to be. A league used to be just a league and usually meant a big skill gap now it doesn’t really mean that. Like can we please go back to old ladder where it was fun and more competition?
Update on what really matters (as imbalanced as late game Zerg is, at least you get to experience periods that seem winnable, beforehand).
Antisora inspired me to try to look at every replay where a cannon rusher lost. During this process, I learned that Winter commentated a best of 9 between Puck and Printf last month. A “grudge match.”
Even with Puck knowing a cannon rush is coming and trying to pick maps that are anti cannon rush, he still ended up losing the series to printf. Does anyone know of a NA Toss with better micro than Puck, because I don’t. Puck is 5th on the ladder atm, and if he doesn’t know how to beat something… I don’t know who does.
Moreover, I’ve only met one person who was confident/cocky about their ability to beat cannon rushes and printf, specifically. While looking at replays… “that guy” was losing over and over, recently.
No one has any freaking idea how to actually beat a cannon rush. It’s absolutely ridiculous how many people are ignorant of how much higher these guy’s win rates are than those using any other strategy.
The only thing that is even remotely comparable, Toss wise, was the blink stalker all-in era. We’re talking a top 3 imbalanced Toss build ever. (Blink stalker era, immortal sentry all-in, and this).
The strategy has been out since day one, yet… everyone is still this clueless? Is that not a sign? Even if it were balanced, which it’s not, it’s also the most hated build/strat in the game. Is the point of SC 2 to be fun or abhorrent? Are we living in Idiocracy?
The worst part hasn’t even been mentioned yet. These guys are trying to blind counter printf. They’re going as far as going forge first. Imagine how you’re going to fare on ladder, playing a barcode who cannon rushes, when that’s the extent that people are going to, to try to counter this - yet, still failing.
99.99% of people aren’t pro. No one freaking cares whether pros are using cannon rushes or not. People care about that as much as anyone cares about the stupid nerf to infestors.
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You are being quite exaggerated, aren’t you? Infestor nerf for example is only noticeable on prolevel.
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Cyclone best unit FacePalm
You terrans are so funny, they only have to do marauders and vikings with some ghosts who win everything, nor need to vary compositions, they are in this primitive composition of marine marauder medivac, few use ghosts they are already very strong the way they are, range emp 10 , range feedback 9, that says a lot…
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Sad liberator noises
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