Oof, they’re overly strong to be sure, but do we really want to have to deal with nerfgate 2.0 so quickly? Still people in this very thread going on about the last set.
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So, when do u fix another bugs in co-op mission?
I keep forgetting about this, but Zeratul’s Observers can enter Kerrigan’s Nydus Worms.
I demand justice!
Kevin, Don’t Listen to him he is playing Mind games with you! Abathur and Dehaka is Fine the way they are!
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And I just suggested going a bit further than what Monk was talking about and make it a blanket reduction across the board, I could perhaps have worded it better, I did actually read what Monk wrote.
And yes, just increasing HP is pretty bland IMO, and especially when the net result of removing the unit cost mastery is that Karax’ dps per cost is actually getting nerfed. dps is king after all in coop.
I don’t think Nova or Zeratul is that great a comparison. they both have a hero also to make up for it, as well as strong top bar abilities. And specifically with Nova since I don’t play Zeratul, I would say for instance her tanks, libs and Ravens are pretty fantastic and fully make up for their high cost once they have their unit researches.
I don’t think Karax needs more dps, and I’m fine with making his units tankier instead of buffing their relatively low dps, but they do not need to be made tankier at the cost of making them more expensive thereby nerfing unit dps in all situations except for when he’s maxed out at the very end.
Without unit cost reduction, I’m not even sure how many maps he would have time to max out either.
I would much rather see the unit tax removed than a significant HP buff. Though both taking away unit tax, and giving a HP buff wouldn’t exactly be OP, I think. And the devs could just lower it to 20-25% if they felt 50% was too much at the regular cost. Basically like Swann has.
Again, I would find a mastery that encouraged active unit usage instead of just A-move, such as a cooldown reduction, much more interesting than one that just increased their HP and shields.
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No, it’s really bland to give them life and shield boost while removing the cost reduction mastery, because his units are already quite tanky, and survability was not an issue with Karax. Maxing out the army, yeah, that kinda was.
Plus people tend to forget when discussing his army that he also has topbar abilities that can change the course of the battle pretty quick. I keep hearing about his lack of ground AA - which is true - but come on, you can’t pew pew pew or solar lance a few phoenixes or banshees that come in attack waves? And that’s without mentioning that you’re supposed to have an ally in these games, which might have something quite useful for AA, like scourges… or 41 nukes 
As for Nova comparisons, you really found the ideal commander to compare Karax to… one of the strongest, most well-rounded in every aspect commanders out there. I never bothered to calculate dps / unit cost or stuff like that, I literally have way better ways to spend my time, but if you’re telling me, in any game, that a Karax army can keep up with a Nova army (equally-skilled players ofc)… I’d ask you to show me the replay.
And you seem to forget that while the basic damage of Nova’s units might not be worth the cost or supply when compared to their regular counterparts from other commanders, it’s their special abilities that set them aside and make them far stronger than the rest. Think triple-tap-snipe ghosts, mines + range siege tanks, libs dealing 100+ dmg / shot on buildings (seriously, find me another unit which can do that), perma-cloaked-banshee area rockets, goli paralizing air units (not as relevant now with the enemy bc-yamato-time buff, but still). Even marines which gain life instead of losing it when they use stimpacks is worth mentioning.
Compared to that, what does Karax have? Immos with 200 dmg ability with 45 second cooldown? Collos which set the ground on fire, but at the cost of 50% slower attacks? Carriers, Phoenixes and Sentinels, which have life-sustaining abilities (and thus, not really requiring the extra bonus to life and shields, at the cost of them being forever 30% more expensive)? The only good offensive ability of Karax’s units is the energizer’s speed boost, and fortunately it can be cast on any unit and even buildings, but I doubt that alone makes Karax’s army power comparable to Nova’s.
And again, survbility was not an issue for Karax’s army, their cost was, which led to long production times. Making his army extra-durable is like adding another 500 life on Brutalisks - it’s nice, useful, but not really required.
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It seems this would make him too similar to other Protoss COs. Granted, Fenix’ Zlots (aka Legionnaires) cost 160 min, but are far tankier
I think I would just replace the unit hp mastery with unit ability cooldown mastery (with it also increasing attack speed of massive units)
Add on a decrease in unit upgrade costs for faster ramp up and it should be fine.
Sure there are more to come but… There were no announcements for any new maps. I would have hoped so. Still, the Karax buff is more than welcome, can’t wait to see him in action. I am also eager to know what the H&H and Swann updates are.
I’d like to see planetary fortresses too.
For example can block entrance on DoN with it, a couple of tanks behind, great defense.
If it gets some extra perks would be even better, but I would use it in its plain form too.
If we consider it’s footprint, which is about 4 bunkers, and the cost is about the same, but bunkers will need troops in them, than a PF is better IMHO.
Other benefit is the time a PF can buy, if you are out of position, while enemy is trying to kill the PF you can move your army in place. And it only costs minerals which we have plenty of.
So there is definitely some room there for implementation of a PF in a fun manner.
I think the CCs are 55 while bunkers are 33, so pretty close. I think the Planetary Fortress would need some tweaking to be really good in Co-op, but wouldn’t mind seeing them at all.
Abathur has one weakness - majority of players do not understand the concept of toxic nest and biomass and actively play to limit biomass for Aba.
For example I’ll place nests near enemy or where a wave will be later to guide enemy units into nests. It’s great when ally is a slow starter like Swann, but say ally is Dehaka and goes out killing units bypassing nests. All of a sudden instead of a brutalisk you have a good old roach.
I don’t see a solution to this, but thought I’ll bring it up to point out abas greatest weakness - it’s ally. Maybe someone can think of a solution.
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Solution: git gud and use a spore to lure enemy into nests
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I mean, if Abathur’s weakness is his ally, then at least he has one. The guy’s (fittingly) a monster.
To be fair as well, a smart Dehaka can use the nests to reap way more Essence than normal early game.
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I am pretty convinced at this point that they are saving PFs for a new commander. Several commanders that make sense to have them, don’t have them. So they are probably gonna give it to someone new and design around it.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. Where did you get that idea?
My point is that per supply or mineral cost, nova units do relatively low damage and have high health. No one said “oh nova units are just more expensive versions of regular units” (even though they largely are). Like you said, nova is considered a really well-rounded, well designed commander (I haven’t bought her, can’t say for myself). Yet her units are shockingly close to Karax units/kit, who’s considered one of the least well-rounded commanders, especially if you factor in SoA for reliable anti air/AoE (and possible stun AoE), which you’ll always have with you regardless of unit comp.
So why are nova units better than Karax? It can’t be cheaper units, because hers are more expensive. It can’t be more units, because she’s locked at 100 supply. It’s for the most part, only numbers that separate them, so simply changing numbers (a “bland change”) could make Karax a lot closer to nova, who, again, is considered a very well designed commander.
Swann tanks, khaydarin monoliths, reavers, wrathwalkers. Your point?
How is making Karax’s units cost more going to improve his ramp up time? It will do the opposite and he already has the worst ramp up time. Most commanders can clear half of the mission before Karax makes his first Carrier.
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If the game takes less than 20 minutes, don’t even bother going for Carriers. You can make due by sending out Sentinels and Energizers supported by SoA.
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when wil the patch hit any date info on that ?
There’s maintenance in just a few hours but hopefully that’s not going to be it. They always end up better when the plan is presented and there’s a chance to talk about the changes before they hit.