Co-Op EXP Grinding Comparison

Different methods exist for grinding co-op EXP. They earn levels at different rates. We will have a look at how fast and efficient they are compared with each other. But first let’s set the known facts.

Known Facts

Item Number
[Cumulative EXP to level 15] 1,045,000
[Cumulative EXP to level 90] 18,367,500
All commanders level 15 18,810,000
Cumulative EXP to 54 prestiges 56,430,000
Basic EXP 20,000
Full Bonus EXP 2,000
Brutal Difficulty Bonus Basic EXP + Bonus EXP
Brutal+6 Bonus (Basic + Bonus) * 3
Random Map Bonus (Basic + Bonus) / 4
War Chest (Basic + Bonus + Difficulty + Random) / 2
Stim Pack Bonus (Basic + Bonus + Difficulty + Random) / 2
Faster speed time Real time * 1.4

To proceed, I will need to make some assumptions for this exercise. Please note that these assumptions are estimated across all strong and weak commanders, from level 1 to level 15.

Assumptions

Grinding Method Time
Average completion time 24 mins
[Arcturus Rifts to Korhal] Time 13 mins
Average Lock & Load Time 15 mins
Average Void Thrashing time 17 mins
Menu+Loading Screen Time 36 secs
[Cradle of Karax] time 39 secs
[Cradle of Artanis] time 48 secs
[Abathur Power Grind] time 8 mins

Using these assumptions, we end up with these estimates:

Normal EXP:

War Chest OR Co-Op Stim Pack:

War Chest AND Co-Op Stim pack:

Regular Brutal

Nothing special here. I set this as the bottomline for grinding. There are short maps and long maps, but on average, 24 in-game minutes should be fair. It's tilted longer because of long maps like Mist Opportunities and Temple of the Past, but also for the fact that low level commanders are less likely to complete shorter maps faster.

Arcturus on Rifts to Korhal

This is available starting on level 6, with Toxic Tyrant. I recommend this if you yourself have a level 6 Toxic Tyrant with no party on the server. The best advantage this has is that you can use this to level Arcturus yourself much faster than the solo queue. This is even faster than Lock & Load, because your ally cannot hold you back by ignoring the last lock as he throws away his entire army thrice over at the bonus.

On average, your ally should be able to kill one of the bonuses by the time you eliminate the last Void Shard, so I added that. 13 minutes is also a good estimate if you’re on-point with building and retargeting Earth Splitters.

Lock & Load

This one is the trickest to estimate. It’s a mixed bag since you get allies who are decent and help you capture the last lock on time. On the other hand, you get allies who delay the map by 6 minutes by tunnel-visioning on the bonus.

The bonus objective adds 10% EXP, so it’s only worth getting if you’re adding at most 10% time. So if your ally is starting to capture the last lock at 10:00, you have until 11:00 to both kill the bonus AND capture the last lock. The bad news is that most allies don’t understand the concept of sending a single unit to the lock while the rest of the army is throwing itself at the bonus, so it averages out at around 15 minutes.

I estimated 1,000 bonus EXP for this map because half the time, your ally does succeed at getting the bonus. The other half he just sort of gives up after his first army dies there.

Void Thrashing

This is the go-to method of people who dislike waiting on allies. Strictly speaking, it’s slower on average than is Lock & Load. However, avoiding the headache and irritation of waiting on useless allies throwing their army away at the bonus might make up for it. As another perk, the bonus objective is relatively easy to complete on this map, so I added the full 2000 EXP.

It’s fast to complete for strong commanders who have good strategies, but it will average more around 17 minutes because commanders at level 1 are pretty weak, and don’t have powerful top bars or heroes to clear the objectives fast.

Cradle of Death

This is by far the most efficient grinding method. There is a little time investment required at the start by rolling for a good set of mutators. As a rule of thumb, you want to avoid stuff that increase the effective health of constructs like Just Die!, Barrier, and Diffusion; as well as stuff that slow down your truck like Concussive Attacks; or stuff that make it easier to mess up your targeting, like short-sighted.

Karax is the fastest here since 8 shots to each construct instantly kills them. His benchmark is 37-39 seconds, depending on what Stone’s initial dialogue is. He can start doing this at level 78. Arkship Commandant Artanis is slightly slower at 48 seconds, and slightly trickier. However he can start doing this at level 48.

Even though you only get about 1/4 of the EXP from regular games, you cycle games around twenty times faster. This effectively makes you 4 times more efficient at levelling, and can help you reach level 15 in less than an hour if you have the war chest or the stim pack, and a blistering 42 minutes if you have both the war chest and the stim pack.

Noteworthy is how in the time it takes players to get all nonprestige commanders to level 15 using random brutal, Cradle of Karax players would already have all commanders with all 54 prestiges, and almost reach level 90!!

Obviously both allies need to be competent to be able to use this strategy. If you trade power levelling with your ally [alternate between who is playing Karax] and divide the EXP by 2, it’s still twice as efficient as random brutal, and still much more efficient than any of the previous methods.

Abathur

I assumed around 8 minutes on average here because that’s right around the tme you get on Scythe of Amon. On Lock & Load, Zerg and Protoss can be done from 6-8 minutes, whereas Terran can be done around 9-10 minutes.

This method is much more efficient than the first four methods, but more difficult by far. You need a fairly skilled Abathur player who is willing to carry your low level commander through a fast map like Lock & Load, or Scythe of Amon. You also need to be on point with things like sniping static defense or securing the last lock. Also, if you want to alternate with your ally, you need to be pretty effective with Abathur yourself.

Nonetheless, this is the most efficient grindable method outside of Cradle of Death Brutal+6.

Mutation Prestige Trick

This is really a one-time thing each mutation, unless you’re some sort of weirdo who does the weekly mutation on all 4 servers. The numbers are only relevant down to the total games to finish because the way the prestige trick works means you can’t really do it more than once per prestige.

11 Likes

Nice guide, been looking into doing these quicker.

Should measure levels of boredom from cradle karax vs random play.

Moral of the story?

Repetitive grind is faster :stuck_out_tongue: than random brutal.

Why wasn’t the mutation fishing factored into the Karax time at all? Or are there so few mutations that affect it that it mostly doesn’t matter?

TLDR: Sounds like that 1st objective on Cradle needs its EXP nerfed, right?

I think that would be an incorrect message to get from the overall situation of prestige and the ludicrous amounts of XP we have to grind, but taking that from these charts is absolutely understandable.

Oh my… :rofl: 99% of the time, guaranteed!

the fact guides like this are even made shows whats wrong with having ‘leveling’ in an RTS imo.

The fun in this game should be the journey.
Not getting to 54 prestige + ascension 1000.
Nothing new unlocks then… there is no “end game” locked content.

It’s a great guide, and power to those that want to endlessly grind…
I just wish it wasn’t necessary.
Would love to play some of the prestiges, but I am in no mood to re-level. Either ‘normally’ or like this…

I already play SC2 a lot less than I did, re-playing the worst part of co-op many times to try some new content isn’t very enticing.

Its like a TV show releasing new episodes, but in order to watch them you need to rewatch that season up to 3 times to ‘unlock’ 1 new episode…

/rant

3 Likes

Also, something interesting I was looking at recently - assuming warchest bonus, it takes 15 random missions to get to level 15, whereas it takes 16 if you choose the mission (assuming you do bonus on all of them).

1045/74.25 = 14.07, so 15 missions
1045/66 = 15.83, so 16 missions

Bottom line is, the bonus xp from random missions isn’t worth it

I’ve unlocked prestiges for the commanders I play the most (P1 Nova and Dehaka, P2 Kerrigan and Abathur and P1-3 Karax) and I’m not going to even bother with the rest. If Blizzard thought that they could improve replayability and player retention by setting up grind walls they were wrong.

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About the Cradle of Karax, will we get banned from doing that?

Nope. its coop, nobody cares about such exploits.

Why tho?

It’s punishing enough to sit through that just to level prestige in the most mind numbing way haha.

1 Like

Of course not. 20char

After you get a compatible set of mutators, you can just use the “Retry Brutal+” button to your heart’s content i.e. the fishing is only done once.

But then you aren’t playing games.
Just hires someone to do a Co-op exp bypass for you instead of wasting time doing something more boring than watching paint dry.

Precisely, anyone willing to part a piece of their soul for that is capable of doing that. Not for me that’s for sure.

I don’t know man but people get banned in D3 for an exploit despite it is not a competitive PVP game though.

This is not even an exploit. You’re playing the game and leaving the game. At most, they will shift the experience so it’s not as front loaded.

Also, it’s worth pointing out that while Cradle farming are more efficient, you can only level up 1 character at a time. So if this only saves both players time if both players actually care about getting Ascension level. If you’re trying to minimize the time for both players on leveling up only, you will probably need to stick to more traditional methods.

Difference with D3 is that in D3 there is trade and items have a value, depending on the exploit these things have an impact on other players and we are not even considering the RMT option if you find an exploit to produce or dupe high value items.