“cheese ruins the game because
~ cheese games cause you to gain or loose the same mmr as 30 min macro games”
Isn’t that better than playing for 40 minutes only to lose in the end?
At least its quick and painless .
Sometimes cheese serves as a break between 2 long matches.
“~ cheese games are decided by micro over the course of a few seconds where as macro games is more of the average overtime”
Not true. I cannot count the amount of times (being Terran) after a long, long Macro game, where I made ONE mistake… ONE wrong engagement, ONE wrong decision and it’s all gone to hell.
A 200/200 fight can be as micro intensive as a Cheese situation, and it may ALL depend on that one moment were all your macro game decisions converge.
If you ask me, I’d rather be cheesed.
“~it takes far more skill to defend than to execute”
Depends on the Cheese. If you know how to read it, it can be ridiculously easy to counter. Marine rush? No big deal, 1 bunker, 1 hellion and its gone. If they insist, 1 tank.
Are you cannon rushing me? Lol, get out of here. That’s just a free win FOR ME!
(because how much more easy it is to defend than to pull off).
“~one small mistake can tip the balance onto either side.”
As I said earlier. Same thing can happen in any match, at any one time. No matter how long. And there isn’t just 1 mistake. First of all there is the mistake of “not scouting”, then “not reacting appropriately”, and so there’s 1, 2 and possibly more mistakes leading to you not defending a cheese.
“~the defender has to know every single cheese type and the proper response to it as well as scout where as the attacker doesn’t need to know anything but a build and basic micro.”
Possibly, just like the defender in any macro game has to know how to deal with any odd composition the opponent may propose. It takes experience for sure. Just like in any other aspect of the game.
But isn’t it cool when you get cheesed, so that next game you try that same cheese yourself and win?
“~this is less objective but its not really fun to play against.”
You’re right. Totally subjective point and therefore irrelevant. Idon’t like to play against skytoss or Bcs more than anyting in the world… and those are far from being “cheese builds”.
“~are they fun to watch? well from what i can tell people enjoyed watching hases cheese with cannon rushing but not many people enjoy proxy all ins or find them as exciting.”
Again, totally subjective. Who Are “these” People?
“~do cheesers find it fun? sure, you know what they find fun? the easy wins where they dont have to macro.”
You what you find fun? The hard wins where all you do is macro… Again, subjective.
And hell, you doesn’t like an easy win?? Whats the point of the game? Working hard and suffering? Or having fun? And are cheeses fun or what!
“~in short starcraft 2 is(and should be) a complex game that involves hard mechanics to master and important decisions that either player has to make, but with cheese its just one person executing one build order and hoping it ends the game.”
Im sorry but ALL games consist on someone wanting to “end the game” at some point.
Yep, hard mechanics to master. Including CHEESE, which you obviously have not and will not master with that attitude.
Its bloody easy to spot a cheese once you understand the pace of the game. And if you get caught on one., well. it happens, just like in a macro game where you responded late to an imminent late game threat.
One thing you fail to realize is that Cheese games are by no means that easy to pull off. Anything can go wrong, and as a cheeser, you need to really practice your cheese to polish it, and you have to really know when and agasint who *race( you can or cannot do it.
I cannot marine rush zerg for example.
On the other hand it takes a HUGE risk to indulge in a cheese. Take that into consideration. Cheesing its not free, and can backfire very easy.
And you know whats even better than an easy wins where you dont have to macro?? Beating a CHEESE!!! Thats the best, feeling that you outsmarted a cheeser.
I always let cannon rushers think they are gonna get it, and then, BAM… tank is out… and CC is not even there… or I rush them back at their base, which is hilarious as its always pretty much undefended.
So you can totally exploit cheesers and their chessy builds.
“~Cheese happens to me maybe once every three games, now if it happened one in ten it would be like “oh wow look what hes doing its so unique” but it happens very often.(encase this is important im 4.2k)”
I tell you again, once you learn how to react, you will be loving it when they cheese, 'cause youll know exactly how to stop it and laugh at them real hard.
Proxies and **** like that, are only a valid strategy, and like I said, it takes HUGE risks. Cheese isnt for free.
As per the changed… would you suggest a “proper way to play”, having players banned if they play too aggresive? Thats just nonsensical.
“change 1:
overall static defense buff, bunkers and cannons build faster, get more range, stuff like that.”
Cool, so now we’ll all have turtle macro 50 minutes games!.. (rather play Age of Empires then).
On the other hand, cannons building faster would HELP cannon rushers, lol!!
And it wouldnt be fair for those macro over expanding Protoss… to have that many cannons build faster and have more range (you suggest as much range as a siege tank?)
You see how your changes can cause the opposite effect?
change 2:
all static defense structures including shield batteries start with 1-20 hp and when they complete they gain their full hp, this will Nerf cannon rushing and make it easy to pick off cannons, if this is too much maybe the health can start at 1 and grow exponentially, so that way if the workers get there fast enough they can pick it off.
Dont you realize Shield batteries are used preciely for cheese? Voidray cheese anyone?
So I agree with you about Voidrays… OP. Can beat you even if you know its coming, so scouting is not enough. You gotta scout early and maintain a good economy while fighting the cheese. But even then, its one of the most satisfactory wins when you beat a voidray or dark templar.
The other day I got this guy who started cannon rush, to then go mass voidray and later Dts… what a dirty ****… but possibly one of the most pleasant wins in the end for me.
“edit: keep in mind when i say easy i mean you can get really far on the ladder with it, relative to the amount of practice it takes.”
You are wrong. It does take practice, and theres a point in the ladder at which different cheeses will STOP WORKING. Because people at that level SHOULD KNOW BETTER (and they do).
So should you, instead of complaining and asking for everybody to “play differently” because you dont like how they play.
Imagine in sports… you telling other teams that they shouldn’t play overly offensive or shouldn’t play counter-attack… etc. It just makes no sense and it would defeat the purpose of expressing yourself genuinely and freely, as well as the pleasure of “coming up with a strategy that works”.
You sir need to figure out that strategy and stop complaining.
Mod Edit: Removed inappropriate language.
