I find it very inefficient.
at some point you just get overwhelmed by bio.
first kite bio back at Corrosive Bile and after that they just run on you.
Too bad, but the meta changes.
Alright so I decided to watch this game. First observation is that at about 5 minutes he sends his hellions in, sees two queens on the edge of creep, and backs off. Then he proceeds to whine about how this guy somehow has perfect scouting without sending in an overlord or ling. Nothing else has happened, apparently heromarine just thinks it’s completely unreasonable for hellions that are OVER A MINUTE LATE to not get any damage vs queens.
Next observation: he opens BC and gets over 10 drones for free despite there being a spore. He transitions to bio off the back of that, which delays his upgrades a lot compared to a 2-1-1 opener or something similar.
Next observation: he’s not doing like any harass or multi prong at all, just maxing out for a big marine tank push. Once he starts pushing he does a drop… the complete opposite of how you want to do it lol he gave the zerg maximum time to prepare without being harassed and then made his push weaker by splitting it up. You’re supposed to harass while you build up that push, then send it out when you feel the zerg is weak enough to die to it. At twelve minutes he’s been pushed back to his half of the map, is remaxing with less than 1k/1k in the bank, and all his push killed was the 5th base and an evo chamber. At this point we haven’t seen a single lurker, its been ling bane hydra and now a couple vipers.
Once the lurkers actually show up he completely falls apart. The basic things you need to do as terran to counter lurkers are still the same as they’ve always been, but clearly he has not practiced them because I can see all the common mistakes that let me win games with lurkers vs terran WAY before these buffs. First off lets start with what he did right: his ghost transition was pretty well timed and he had at least SOME libs/tanks when the lurkers hit. But he took way too long to get the lib transition really going and without that zoning the ghosts can’t really get snipes off safely. Second, he immediately stopped counter attacking and used his bio for defense against lurkers. We all saw how that went. There were at least two times that he saw lurkers and impulsively attack moved toward them with very small clumps of bio, then blamed his mistake on bio being bad. Quite simply: you NEVER fight lurkers with bio. The one exception to that is when they’re by themselves and you have a huge amount of bio in an arc so you can kill them all before a second volley of spines goes off. That’s it. As soon as you see lurkers you HAVE TO COUNTER ATTACK as a bio player. Seriously I can not say this enough, bio players: you will not beat lurkers with bio fighting them head-on. Use the bio to harass while lib/ghost/tank holds the lurkers at bay and protects your bases. You have to imagine you’re fighting zerg mech because that’s basically what it is, its mech but faster and with less range.
edit: oh and btw in case anyone isn’t clear on this: heromarine won this game. And during the game there was literally a point where he attacks into lurkers with a tiny amount of bio, then says ‘What the hell? What just happened? And this my friends is why you don’t play bio. You learn something new every stream.’ Yeah, every stream he learns something new to whine about instead of figuring out the correct way to play.
Like heromarine is so deep in the whiner mentality that any time someone cites him as a credible source I just bust out laughing.
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ignore the first part
he is just accusing his opponent of streamcheating,because he played that guy atleast 5+times the past 2 days of 3 hours streaming,and he(guru aka iqlord) is a stream cheater,he was caught before so yeah thats just that
also i dont remember correctly what happened,but at that level there are things you dont do unless you actually see something with your overlord
yea heromarine is a whiner,and all terrans need to learn to play
EXCUSE ME,how many bio games? 2 out of 1000 and 1 one of them doesnt even have lurkers,tell me how exactly to play against lurkers,maybe you can teach heromarine as well
dont attack them? o rly?? a good zerg player will leave lurkers for defense,offense,pull you apart,yea counter,so you give up a base,lets say you are 5 bases,so now you are down to 4,and at best kill one zerg base,now he is 5 bases,now you actually have to struggle to stabilize on 5 bases,while the zerg takes 2 other bases in the place of his lost one
also he just mines more so even the unfavorable trade favors him and he replaces and he can do this over and over again,because as you said,you cant fight lurkers with bio
yea ty sherlock,how you kill a 6k zerg without eventually fighting head on? yea maybe in your 4k mmr games people dont defend their bases,but dont worry,even this lesser known zerg guy would just rek any bio counter with a few lurkers left behind
yea heromarine runs into like 8 UNSIEGED UNATTENDED lurkers with 90% of the bio he has on the map,proceeds to lose almost all for 8 lurkers,tell me what exactly he needed to do? let them siege one of his bases so now he not only loses the bio but also a base? stop kidding yourself,the matchup is balanced due to mech,but bio is dead,is is that hard to admit just because at your level bio play is made work? its not like 4k bio players are better than top pros and know how to play vs lurkers
except their techs require hive. which means late game.
problem is - you want bio to work, you need to give zerg options that aren’t lurker play. the reason they use it is its pretty much the only late game option we have.
you don’t like that bio sucks against lurker play. understandable. try being the race that is pigeon-holed into one style of play in the late game because the others have been nerfed to the ground.
But everyone tells me that bio is a very mobile unit composition.
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Yeah I said that. It doesn’t mean you cant use lurkers before that. Are zerglings not viable early game units because you cant get adrenal until you have a hive? Argument doesn’t really hold water.
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Guys, I created this thread because I want to watch Bio versus Lurkers games. Let’s not turn this into a discussion of balance. I half-suspect the people whining that Bio is dead because of Lurkers is…well, just whining, and I honestly am neutral to all this debate about balance or whatever. I got curious and very skeptical because I saw people whining on the Youtube comments, and forgive me if I want to watch a few games and judge for myself rather than just jump into the whining bandwagon.
I don’t want the Lurkers to be nerfed, I’m not asking for Bio buffs (admittedly because I’m a mech player), I am really not interested in balance per say. I just want to watch some games, that’s about all.
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i guess getting hydra den, lurker den, infestation pit, hive, and 2 updrades is… fast… ya… totally. fast upgrades for sure…
do people like you ever use your brain
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Except that isn’t what I said. Obviously it takes a while and a lot of resources to fully upgrade lurkers. But just getting lurkers doesn’t take that long especially with the much faster build time for lurker den. That was kind of the point of the change in the patch. Do you really not understand what I am saying or are you just trolling me on purpose.
News: You can use Lurkers before fully upgrading them!
LOL, lurkers are absolute trash before they’re upgraded… i’m afraid your view of the game is a bit skewed…
Is reynor bad? Cause he build 5 or 6 lurkers and was actually using them well before he completed a hive, let alone the upgrades. Lowko starts talking about it at around 7:22 but the den goes down earlier around 7. I wont say its common but lurkers can be used for splash damage before you get their upgrades and it works just fine. Granted Reynor still gets baneling speed as soon as his lair finishes for insurance but he also goes straight to lurkers and builds them ASAP. Honestly I think the real reason you don’t see Lurkers built until after hive, at least in TvZ is because of the prevalence of BC play, requiring you to focus on getting anti air first instead of anti ground
https:// www.youtube .com/watch?v=LP1I9VkxzhY
All they have to do is remove lurker fast burrow- that will allow counterplay while still rewarding zergs who position and leapfrog their lurkers well.
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What would you pick … lurker+viper+corruptor … or bio+tank+viking+lib in straight fight …
why zerg have just better units ? … you have chance when you go bio vs tanks … you can rush them drop on them or catch them unsiege … vs lurkers bio si just dead weight … viper is OP how cost effective is vs tanks, libs and vikings … they can instantly abduct (kill) your tanks or libs… is alredy very hard to keep up vs super mobile lurkers … but you need to spit your tanks also or 2 Blinding Clouds makes all your tanks useless and lurkers just rush you … you cant win air war vs PB zerg will be much more cost effective … and libs cant catch lurkers they can insta unborrow …
Zerg have insane ani siege tools and in same time better siege unit and better AA … terran have none anti siege that works vs lurker …
Do you think this is good game desing? to give all tools to one side … it was stupid to give zerg “tanks” in combination with theyrs best ani siege units in game it makes big problem …
Seems like you dont know this forum well enough. You could start a thread with asking, why are bananas yellow and you would end up in a zerg op discussion.
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And then probably something about politics if it went on for long enough.
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why is pointing out bio is not viable a whine? its bad for the game,bad for the viewers,as tvz bio has always been widely regarded as the most fun to watch mu
also fun to play,like for all i care all terrans can just play mech yea,but is that good?
im all for mech changes,because it also might be a little too strong now,but bio also needs help cant you see
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ZERG OP ZERG OP??? where the f you see this?
bio not viable=/=mu is imbalanced
its a fact
also the mu might be in the favor of fcking terran because of mech,like i dgaf about that,nerf it buff zerg idc
BUT MAKE BIO VIABLE,is this whine to you?
buff zergs other options,buff bio/this would be better:revert insta burrow,nerf range by 1
They could keep the range and just remove the insta burrow. The insta burrow was designed with their lower range in mind. Now they can zone even colossus.