What makes them more viable with tactical jump is that they’re able to cut 30 seconds and warp straight into enemy mineral lines. What makes it worse is that the bc doesn’t even have to target fire that much anymore now that it shoot and move at the same time. Not only are they even more powerful, well-rounded fighters, they also have universal map presence and can warp out of danger at any time, or be suicided to do insane amounts of damage on an enemy base, forcing a base trade. They can still be viable without tactical jump, what makes them worth rushing early game and abusing late game is tactical jump.
1 Like
I was ever wondering how good is early bc against P. Doesn’t seem so good to me from my own point of view.
You should not compare bls and bcs. Bls are sieging units, they need range, not mobility.
3 Likes
Really not good. Thats why we really dont see it in progames. I rarely ever struggle vs early game bc but i think lategame bc is stronger vs p than it is vs z. Yamato for example is a lot stronger vs p units because they cost more and still got one shot and usually have them in lower numbers. also tempest would be a viable counter vs tempest but you can just teleport them into tempest and yamato them. tempest really dont tank much and are sooo slow…(not a real proplay but there was a bc match avilo vs pig where pig needed to play around the bcs)
1 Like
Lol ok, so if the brood is a siege unit then what is the role of the BC? Is it the ‘disregard all basic rules of strategy’ unit?
A hybrid of the Ultralisk and Carrier.
Single target high DPS and high durability. But with the shortest range of all T3 air units in the game.
Usually short range units have a fast movement speed allowing them to get up close OR an ability(See Adept Shade) to get up close to the enemy.
4 Likes
If that were true, Marines would be objectively better than BCs in literally all cases. No, global map presence and counter resistance is what makes BCs work. Aka, tac jump and yamato and fire while moving. You could reduce the dps but keep the fire while moving and BCs would still be viable. You could nerf tac jump cast time further and BCs would still be viable. But you can’t remove tax jump unless you repurpose the BC with significant buffs elsewhere.
1 Like
Battle mech was only a thing with thos particular version of the cyclone. Back before it was changed in the 4.0 buffs, battlemech was jusr starting to become a thing. Following that the playstyle disappered almost completely until it was reverted back to the original cyclone iteration.
Sure, but you can’t have an immobile, short range unit without it being useless anyway.
The BC trades range and damage for a single burst attack, and survivability in TJ. Without either of these things, the unit is a expensive, glorified paperweight, and would continue to be so without a major redesign. You cannot have a slow, short range, low damage unit, because then theu are simply incapable of doing anything.
The broodlord in the meantime is slow, but it makes up for it with long range, decent damage (plus the additional broodling damage) and the ability to manipulate pathing through the use of broodlings.
3 Likes
What? So according to you, its supposed to be as durable as an ultra but with carrier dps? How is that even close to reasonable to you for a unit you can open with? Ultras aren’t even that great at their ONE JOB - killing bio. BC’s are great at harass, base trades, and just taking ridiculously efficient trades all the time with no risk.
Ok thats technically true, but is upgraded hydra range really all that short?
No, which is why TJ should be behind an upgrade.
That’s because Ultralisk need higher Push Priority so they aren’t stuck with pathing problems.
Also did you know Ultralisk only do a 33% splash while Banelings do 100%?.
It should at bare minimum have 7 range.
3 Likes
I’m just stopping by here to tell you that, yes they do need it. Kthnxbai
We’ve been over this. Do people still get yamato in time for the first BC to use it? Yes. So what are we really talking about here? We’re talking about players getting this upgrade youre proposing instead of yamato, and it either only slightly delays the BC timing or it does nothing except delay yamato and 1 more queen survives. Unless youre talking like stim research time this would change nothing, and I think that would be a horrible solution. Because if the BC is gated behind multiple upgrades then its even worse as a lategame tech switch - which is where its supposed to be used.
You either remove tactical jump or the bc stays a harass unit. Theres no middle ground here.
But there is. By making TJ require vision so Terran has to commit scan energy.
1 Like
What? Just use the vision from your reaper or hellions…
1 Like
Queens and Creep spread
Lol what? Those dont stop vision… Do you not watch these builds? The hellions run in at the same time as the BC jumping, not hard to just send the reaper back a couple seconds before and use the cliff to get a view of the main. If that fails, jump to the hellions and fly over 5 feet into the main.
1 Like
Correct, since it’s utterly rediculous to imagine a Zerg rushing to 1 broodlord on 2 bases and auto-winning vs Terrans with mere move-click micro despite the terran having massed twice the resources in defense. The best part of this fantasy is the Zerg having equal economy with the Terran despite being on fewer bases and rushing out hive tech.
Comparing the Broodlord to the BC is utterly ridiculous because the design of the BC is insanity incarnate in a video game. Alas Blizzard was losing $$ and needed to keep their primary $$ source happy (and since Terrans make up the majority of casual players, what could be better than making terran the MOBA race of SC2?).
2 Likes
I am all for TJ removal with speed boost to unit.
Also remove swarm hosts
3 Likes
Why don’t you open blink then?
However that opening is not an istant win at all at pro level. The issue is instead the absence of better harass alternatives for Terrans. A T3 unit which take the role of lower tech more specialized harassing units is weird.