Malwarfare that’s the one i meant. It starts off half on the cliff below your resource line.
How often is the field randomizing half unbuildable and how often are you randomizing onto Malwarfare? Is this really that big of an issue?
It doesn’t really change your timings to build Gateway first, half a field is still plenty until you get to later where you’re spotting 1-2pylons anyway.
Super rarely, you get one field as P2 that is entirely not ideal. Only then you’re building a pylon first, not exactly game losing lol.
What are the best expo timings / strats for each commander?
Raynor: Dusk Wing expand
Kerrigan: build macro hatch next to rocks, send Zerglings or Kerrigan to break rocks, build another Hatch?
Artanis: Discussed at length
Zagara: send 10ish zerglings then expand
Swann: 2x blaster billy, salvage, expand?
Vorazun: honestly no idea, shadow guard? I always use shadow guard to clear stuff.
Karax: orbital strike fast expand
Alarak: structure overcharge on 2nd pylon
Nova: 2x ground terret, or send marines
Fenix: Kaldaris expand, Taldarin expand, Taldarin + Warbringer expand
Han&Horner: build CC next to rocks at 17 supply, break it with galleons / reapers
Stukov: build CC next to rocks, and infest structure
I don’t own or play other commanders.
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It’s also Scythe of Amon that it does this on. If you bothered to review the complete argument.
I did and it isn’t a really big issue. 1/18 commanders, 2/15 maps, with a possibility to even place it improperly. Is it annoying? Yes it is. Is it worth multiple posts on a topic not about it on? Definitely not.
If you’d like to discuss this issue, please create your own topic. This is the 2nd time I’m pointing out to you that this isn’t about P2 or its rare misplacement.
If you bothered to review this topic at all, we shouldn't need this side discussion.
You are dense aren’t you. And obviously not an Arty player either. It’s not a chance that it happens.
It happens everytime, in the same area.
What a surprise reply… not lol.
Yes, as dense as your inability by clicking psi field and place it where you want it. Oh wow, problem solved.
Let me guess, you’ll continue to complain and attack me cuz of course that’ll solve an in-game bug that has nothing to do with me 
good job.
Hey champ on Legate it costs 25 to move it. So you really don’t want to do that. Again, obviously not an Arty player.
Hi BUD.
An improperly placed Psi Field that’s not usable is still not usable. So either you replace it or you build a pylon. What else you going to do exactly?
Oh wait, I know, keep complaining and direct all your negativity towards me. Yeah that’ll definitely solve the “psi field misplacement bug” that’s been around since patch 5.0.
You obviously don’t realize how ridiculous you sound, each time you say this.
Brought to you by the Uther-guy who is leveling his P2 Artanis… telling the guy who’s got all his prestige and been A1000 forever… on his topic about detailed breakdown of openers for Artanis… that he doesn’t play Artanis. Like really guy? Lmao.
I can’t say I’m a mastery Artanis player… you know like you and all. Since I have M’s handy-dandy overlay, I can definitely say that I have over 400+ games with Artanis alone. But hey, you do you my big man.
I heard someone chuckle…VORAZUN!!!Get out now with your Dark Pylon mastery 
I send Marauders. Can be an ever better choice on maps where you have to take down buildings anyway, or if you discover you’re against a compo with armored ground.
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When you place that first pylon down for Artanis, it doesn’t have to be EXACTLY where the old power field is. You can build your gateway on a favorable edge of the field, then build your pylon in a better position with the gateway on its edge. By doing this, even really stupid power field placements at the beginning of the game can be salvaged. And if you need to build a second pylon anyways, you can probably build it AFTER you’ve expanded, got your economy going, and got a small army out. It should in NO way affect your opening.
And if your anything else aside from P2… Just move it for free in the beginning.
Any extra pylons and gates you build afterwords should have NO impact on your initial expansion.
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Again you’re reading comprehension is failing. I’ve repeatedly said only half shows.
You can still drop your first gateway forge and cyb core in there. It will have to be moved if you want to ever use the whole pylon field. Why don’t you play those maps and see. It can even happen on dead of night.
Go troll somewhere else.
If you look at the in-game timer (and the tooltip) a gateway takes 65 seconds to warp. Without lag it may take only 46 seconds in real life, but in the game 65 seconds worth of stuff will have happened. Also rocks don’t have armor anymore. It takes 2 zealots 37.5 seconds to do 1000 damage, which is enough time to use orbital strikes twice for the remaining 1000 damage if you’re in a hurry with the rock. There is much more to expanding than just destroying the rock, and there is much more to co-op than just expanding. Despite all the numbers your approach is not very clear. Do you have a replay or a video? Also 2.5 minutes to cast 4 orbitals? Shouldn’t that take 90 seconds?
No, it is done for 6-7min to save time on M’s custom maps. So I don’t have replays for those… at least not somewhere I know to look for.
Many of your questions have been addressed in the discussion already and don’t take away from the overall points. This include the very real 5.5min full saturation on 4xOS vs 6.5min full saturation of the alternative. The OS calculation was done improperly, which is again addressed.
- You get your Nexus built at expansion before 2min. From there 110sec Nexus build time, up by 4min, 15sec probes x 15 / 2 = 112.5sec. So if you somehow only saturated main by 4min mark, then decided to build the rest of probes on expansion, it would still only take about 6min to saturate. Point here 4xOS definitely is a faster expansion/saturation.
- The armor is removed from rocks during a patch, that’s my oversight, but the timings were very real in-game tested. I believe a discussion above addresses this issue. Also, it basically shaves off some seconds on the calculation. Nothing significant.
- First OS doesn’t have 30sec restriction.
- If you include travel time, cast time, etc. then 90sec + 30sec is clearly reasonable.
None of that matters. The small details are not going to break or make an opener. The point was to showcase that the “so called advantage” from chrono is not really true.
You can also read up on my other recent post regarding Chrono Boost Mastery Analysis for more information.
And yes lol, all timers referred here are in-game times.
I was shocked to read this so just tested this, but prediction and observations match perfectly.
A nexus at normal speed takes 17 seconds to make a probe, a nexus working 22.5% faster takes 17/1.225 ~= 13.9 seconds and a nexus working 52.5% faster takes 17/1.525 ~= 11.1 seconds
In maguro’s map with a zeratul ally that only has regular chrono I wait until the timer is nice and round before I make a probe and as predicted 17 seconds later without chrono, 14 seconds with zeratul’s chrono and 11 seconds with artennis’ chrono.
I made 3 forges one without and 2 with 22.5% and 52.5% chrono, and started 3 research simultaneously. And as expected from a building that operates 52.5% faster by the time it finished the 22.5% chrono building’s progress was at 129/160 and the non-chrono building’s progress was at 105/160. By the time the 22.5% chrono building finished the non-chrono building’s progress was at 131/160. The values 105/160 and 131/160 match with the values 1/1.525 and 1/1.225. A nexus that operates 52.5% faster is literally worth 1.525 and one that operates 22.5% faster is worth 1.225… (in terms of production at least)
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The actual calculation is 1/1.225 (22.5%) = 81.6% or 18.4% faster time.
- 17 - 17 x 18.4% = 17 - 3.1 = ~14sec
Similarly, 1/1.525 (52.5%) = 65.6% or 34.4% faster time. - 17 - 17 x 34.4% = ~11sec
However, I realized during making the post that if I used those theoretical numbers it isn’t necessarily accurate. It doesn’t include human operation error. So I thought it best to include my own eye-hand coordination error to better mimic the issue, which doesn’t change the overall message. 
As for the actual benefit, we can take 34.4% - 18.4% = 16% real difference. So if anyone took a look at my other “chrono thread”, the estimation was at 15% benefit, which is quite a good estimate and easier to use. The saved time on research through a game, under many assumptions that wont’ be true (for using chrono mastery), would give it only 3min at most (at the cost of slower expansion for at least 1-2min for many COs). So it is quite literally a trap to choose Chrono if the premise of belief is “it is faster”. It really isn’t.
No idea what is really optimal, but this is how i do it:
- Raynor: marines for killing rocks, dusk wings for guarded expos (unless guarded expo can be taken with 8 or so marines… e.g. Malwarefare)
- Kerrigan: always macro hatch (main base) before pool. Zerglings for rocks / weakly guarded expo, otherwise kerrigan.
- Artanis: 2 orbital + zealot expand for rocks / weakly defended expos, otherwise 3 or so dragoons + orbital strike.
- Swann: 2 blaster billies for rocks, war bots for guarded expos.
- Zagara: zerglings for rocks / weakly guarded expo. Add some banelings for medium guarded expo like on Chains of Ascension. Zagara for heavily guarded expo like Scythe of Amon
- Vorazun: Shadow guard expand. Sometimes i use stalkers to take down rocks earlier.
- Karax: usually with SoA energy. Some maps require 1 zealot for vision / utility (e.g. chains of ascension - burrowed ultralisks won’t unburrow if only a probe or building is nearby, part & parcel)
- Abathur: 1 toxic nest and spines for rocks, toxic nests if you can lure expo guards, UEs for anything else
- Alarak: structure overcharge. Some maps require a supplicant (e.g. chains of ascension - burrowed ultralisks)
- Nova: marines mostly. You can expand with turrets, but due to their cost & build time, I think they are not much faster (if at all) than marines.
- Stukov: first spawn of infested civilians or apokalisk
- Fenix: kaldalis or taldarin for rocks, taldarin & warbringer for lightly guarded expos, Fenix for anything else
- Dehaka: zerglings for rocks, dehaka + zerglings for guarded expos
- Han & Horner: galleons & reapers for rocks, + some mines for guarded expos.
- Tychus: 2 turrets for rocks, tychus for anything else
- Zeratul: 2 stalkers for rocks, 3 stalkers for guarded expos (for heavily guarded expos they need Zeratul)
- Stetmax: zerglings for rocks, garry & zerglings for anything else
- Mengsk: for rocks start sending built troopers after main base is saturated, for guarded expos: 10-20 troopers + depot calldown
Not to go too far off topic, but Dusk Wings are generally a better expo strategy. Reason being it’s better to get a third CC/OC up asap.
Not that 4 Marine style is bad, and it’s coop so it doesn’t matter too much, but it does slow down subsequent OCs quite a bit. Largely due to the fact that you don’t need to make a single unit until after your first Hyperion once you figure out where you need to use the big guy.
Claiming something about others without actually knowing, is not a good strategy for a discussion - especially not for a public one.
Not only might you be wrong, you apearently are not noticing you might be wrong, while readers do - that does not put you in the greates light.
Also there is such a thing as theory, which can provide insight and knowledge without experience. Actually this is the kind of knowledge, that almost all human knowledge is comprised of.
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