Maybe when you are using dusk wing cooldown? I use a 50/50 split with hyperion cooldown, as i think it has way greater utility. In that scenario IIRC, dusk wings take down rocks slower than marines due to cooldown.
Btw: you can stim your marines a few times (4 times i think) even without any medics. That speeds things up a bit.
Mastery effects the cooldown after the first use, not the initial one. So it should be the same regardless.
That said, because Raynor effectively has the longest build time for his expo (cause you morph it to an OC as well), breaking his rocks that little bit slower isnât too big a concern for him overall. Granted, using Dusk Wings to break his rocks can be a bit slower than that anyway, provided you need to use them for the first attack wave as well.
Itâs really just all about getting those extra OCs up sooner so they can start making bank asap.
All that said, nothing wrong with doing it your own way. The only actually important thing is getting your expo sooner rather than later. How one does it doesnât matter all that much (apart from a certain notorious example)
Did another retest using 4 x OS on Mâs Void Launch.
Compare this to 2xZeal + 1xOS on Mâs Oblivion Express.
This basically lines up with everything in OP, the important bits anyway (both approach works). The additional information I wanted to include in this test was to bring the time frames together. By 6min-6.5min, the player should be able to reach end tech. This means Citadel => Temple vs Stargate => Fleet Beacon vs Robo => Bay
From there on, with 2 base economy at 100% for the next 1-2min, by 8min mark, the player should be able to have Archon/Tempests/Reaver if need be. All of which aligns up with mission timings. (Not to say you should use those strategies lol, but illustrating those are the slowest you can do).
Youâre normalising the chronoboosted nexus, which of course youâre free to do, but it wouldnât be accurate to say that the nexus is then 1 - .816 = 18.4% faster. It would be like saying karaxâ chrono wave makes buildings 80% faster because 1:5 is .2 : 1 after normalising and 1 - .2 = .8 so voila only 80%.
If a regular nexus produces probes nonstop for 1700 seconds you would have 100 probes, and a 52.5% boosted nexus would have at least 152 by then. If somehow chrono wave was on the entire time and supply wasnât an issue etc, then each nexus would have made 500 and 762 probes instead. When you have 52% or 500% more probes in the same amount of time I think itâs fair to say the structure operates 52% or 500% faster. If you wanna compare mastery and non-mastery chrono Iâd normalise 1.225 : 1.525 to 1:1.245 and say that full mastery is relatively 24.5% faster.
Personally I split the mastery mostly favouring chrono, but to me both are worth more than not having to build 1 or 2 zealots at the start. If I donât get it please just show it.
But the numbers donât lie. Not sure what youâre trying to prove.
The 11 and 14 seconds match your own observations.
This means in 1min with mastery Chrono you get 60 / 11 = 5.5 probes. Compare to no mastery 60 / 14 = 4.3 probes.
In a game where saturation of 2 base is between 4-6min. Your hypothetical 1700 seconds is not applicable at all. Who plays the game for 26min and makes probes the entire time? What for? The most you got out of it is 1.2 probes x 5 = 6 probes at most.
Nobodyâs ânormalizingâ anything lol. 6 probes is also definitely significant in a total of 40 or so. That is if you are gaining resources from all 40 vs 34 for x period of time. However, you are not. And you canât just ignore that cuz itâs convenient for your narrative.
What the technicality here is this. With mastery, not accounting anything else, by the 6min mark, youâd have 6extra probes. So from 6min and on, if you stopped there, economy is faster than non-Chrono.
Yet, what is actually happening is non-Chrono means energy mastery, which saturated on 2base a full 60sec faster. This means it is functioning for 1min at full income while the Chrono counter part is still saturating.
If you canât understand that is better then itâs not a big deal. Both approach works perfectly fine for brutal. This is coop and not competitive ladder. But math is math. If you want to optimize and donât believe the results, then do your own game and show us. I guarantee you doing Chrono is not faster.
Incorrect. Majority of human knowledge is based off of practice. Rather than theory.
The theory of evolution, the various belief systems, any of your political affiliations would all like a word with you. Put it this way, for every âpractice or proven knowledgeâ there was a corresponding âtheory of said knowledgeâ that came before it.
Stop derailing the topic with your nonsense. Itâs cool you want to discuss, but not only are you talking about things that arenât related to the topic. Youâre arguing about things that you, yourself, clearly donât understand.
Also, nobody said theory and knowledge are mutually exclusive. Even if youâre right that âmy theoryâ is just a theory. It doesnât automatically prove that the theoretical data doesnât match real-life data.
You know what you can do though? Put your action where your mouth is. Do some testing, show us all how crazy often this occurs. And "instead of placing a pylon when field is entirely unusable" or "placing Gateway on the misplaced field", what else you do that apparently nobody else does. Youâre basically complaining about a thing that people like me has gone through, people like you going through, and people getting P2 will go through.
In the end, it just all appears that youâre arguing for the sake of arguing to win an internet debate. Let me gift you with your victory. You have won the internet of the day. Congratz.
Things rarely can get more wrong than this . Like itâs not even close. Go to a library and pick any high level science book - like plasma physics, semiconductors, genetic modelling, neglected tropical diseases - and then ask around the people you know, how many have had actual real life experience.
Most things were experienced by someone - yes. Mostly by people who have been dead for ages. But not by YOU - and not by me - and not by almost everyone else for that matter.
I know that there was a moon landing⌠Niels armstrong experienced it - most people have knowledge about that, but 0 experience.
Likewise everything about history that is >150 years in the past, no currently living human has any experience of⌠but we have tons of knowledge about history.
Then there is mathematics. Many many many things in maths you cannot have experience in⌠there is only theory⌠like hyperdimensional cubes or irrational numbers. One could argue you cannot have any experience about anything in maths⌠not even with stuff as simple as the number 2.
And that goes for almost everything and everyone.
You just simply canât be much more wrong. Everything you are mentioning already falls under practice. Any medical knowledge, this is practice now.
As it is practiced in modern medical offices. The only thing you have is theory of space. Newton already discovered gravity long ago.
All you really have left is was it the big bang theory? What is a black hole? These are about as theoretical/proven as astrology itself.
The thing about SC2 is that itâs pretty darn mathematical, for better or worse you can predict and calculate a lot.
All RTS are mathematical to a degree but SC2 is much more mathematical than say Warcraft 3. For example in WC3 inner fire knights on paper are a much better counter to mountain giants than inner fire riffleman based on armor types, and dps; but because MG taunt micro, and riffleman kiting the math actually doesnât line up with practice.
SC and especially SC2 much more true to the mathematics, probably because stuff dies quicker in fights and there is less time to micro. What you calculate typically holds up in practice executed.
You are correct.
Chrono boost increases build speed which is a separated concept from Build time. The number showed in the UI is build time.
With 22.5% bonus build speed, its build time is reduced down to
1/1.225 = ~81.6%
I advice you not arguing further with this guy. He does not care for logic or the general definition or calculation notation. He only cares for what fits his narrative and if it doesnât he says people donât understand or they canât take a proper debate while he literally talk like an ignorant champ.
Some of his calculations are correct but some donât because his insane logic. Feel free to take a look at his Karax thread and see if his calculations even match with the in-game number.
Itâs insanely frustrating that this idiot gives out false info and when someone correct that he says
Maybe it is true that you are indeed a special case and truely only know what you experience. That would also explain your immunity to logic and reasoning.
Wonder what happens when you read a book about ebola, radiation poisoning, medieval execution techniques or chemical disincorporation⌠if you should miraculously survive, let us know your experiences - idiot.
A car is moving at a speed of 100 km/h. It complete 1700 km in a flawless 17h. You gives the car to a mechanic and he installed the latest engine into it. He said it is now 22.5% faster.
You go and try the improved car and it goes at 122.5 km/h and finish the 1700 km in 13.88h. You are very satisfied with the car and you even post a topic about your new car on an Internet forum.
You say âmy car is so fast now. It finishes 1700 km in 13.88h.â
Then an account with the name ânot-Fearrâ showed up and say
âHang on. 13.88/17 = 0.816. So that means Your car is only 18% faster not 22.5%. You were tricked.â
You tell your mechanic about this and he posted his explanation to Fearr.
â17 and 13.88 are the time it completed the 1700 km. Itâs not the speed of the car.â
â13.88h is only 18% less than 17h, is it true or not?â
âYes butâŚâ
âThen itâs only 18% faster, not 22.5%. You canât just ignore the real benefit cause it fits your narrative.â
Not-Fearr achieved another flawless victory because the mechanic knows it will cost him even more time and effort if he keep replying.
Flagged for abusive language.
What kind of pseudo logic is that?
At 100km/h (that is ~28m/s) your car drives 472 meters in 17s⌠your numbers are off by about 340 000 % ⌠If you want to make a point, maybe dont use stupidly wrong examples.
That being said, the actual point is trivially explained even to a teenager :
Itâs 22.5% increase in probe production per time.
Or 18.4% reduction in probe production time.
Both stand in direct relation:
1 + 22.5% = 1 / ( 1 - 18.4%)
1 + 0.225 = 1 / ( 1 - 0.184)
Both values represent the same change and are therefore either both correct or both wrong.
Buddy, look at how enraged you got over this. Unbelievable.
In your example, youâre describing the car (Chrono Boost is 22.5% faster) while Iâm talking about the time taken from 17hr to 13.9hr.
The time is 3.1hr faster, 3.1/17 = 18%
Whatâs important for readers? How fast Chrono is boosted? Anyone who can read can do that⌠or perhaps how much time it saves??? Holy Christ lol
Apparently thatâs too insane to understand. And we must endlessly debate about it. Tell me again how smart you areâŚ
How is that worth debating about? And how is it getting you so angry to personally attack people, as always?
Its not getting done 18% faster⌠its getting done 18% sooner.
I assume you were trying to say that sooner is more important than faster since when X is done is most important (but merely were running into a semantic discussion with the wrong technical definition of faster)
Sure 18% sooner/shorter. Is the word choice really worth Cerebrate losing it over?
You were claiming the description was wrong (ie doesnât work that way.). Time is the important factor, but it is saved by increasing speed. It just doesnât go from speed->time saved directly. But the speed itself does work as advertised.
Did I? If so, not meant it intentionally. Just that itâs deceptive to tell players itâs boosted that way when players care more on the âtime savedâ.
How does that justify all the flaming anyway?