Every terran that counts, which is of course you and anyone who happens to support you in whatever you are talking about at that moment.
3 Likes
Zealots are probably the worst mineral only core unit of the 3 on their own. Warp prisms are a big part of why they’re good.
They’re good for their role, which is being a wall of meat for your actual high value units like immortals/templar/archons/colossus, and they’re the best option for Protoss because they’re the only unit they have that only costs minerals, but lets not kid ourselves declaring them the best core unit in the game. Terran and Zerg would likely not make them even if they could (well, Terran would probably make some to protect marines early on, then probably phase them out eventually). Lings are way better for harassment, and Marines are way better for both actual army fights and harassment. Protoss would absolutely make marines/zerglings if they could, because those units would be much, much stronger with the warp in mechanic than Zealots are considering their vastly superior damage output.
Zealots are good when charge is completed for that phase in the game before the opponent has a large enough army or the right tech to deal with large numbers of them.
Honestly, I’m fine with the nerf to remove charge impact damage (though I think it should be reduced to +4 or something instead), in trade for an additional upgrade that comes after. I’d like to see stalkers get another upgrade as well to improve their late game performance a bit - maybe on the dark shrine with a long research time or something - and maybe the extra Zealot upgrade (Which should be something better than 8 charge impact damage) on the templar archives, so it doesn’t screw up the timings on getting chargelots + blink stalkers, and is gated behind too much tech to create a strong timing.
Only if they’re able to make full contact. If the Zealots are in a choke, or there are enough of them, this isn’t the case. But yeah, Lings are overall the better unit because of their insanely high DPS and similar HP/cost.
3 Likes
imagine being a gold and talking what needs to be nerfed/buffed.
4 Likes
Absolutely , the problem is this type of Micro is only valid with a very small number of units at the earliest harassment and scouting stages of the game in the first 2 minutes , large scale battles as you said Zealots are just a meat shield
They are not broken (Terran here) but… the spam zealot helps a lot sometimes. Still, maybe they needed a nerf. I cant say I thought it was just a meme, idk why they are considered broken. broken is only the ability to warp in a lot that can turn games
I think you forgot to include mobility, which is a major reason why Zerglings are good.
I don’t think that the zealot is that good but this may be my protoss bias here.
Even if the zealot deserves the nerf, at least lower the time to research to 60 instead of 100. Sundering impact in general is pretty clunky to incorporate into a build
1 Like
Quick answer is no. Zealots are not op.
I’m not sure why blizzard is so intent on nerfing a unit that has been doing fine as it’s role as a core unit.
Actually most of the Protoss changes are questionable.
Adding five upgrades to one building structure making it even more rigid and forcing you into more strict tech choices.
The adepts buff doesn’t seem worthwhile for the time in the game it’ll come into effect.
Zealots change is questionable. Making an upgrade that gives you just a chance of 8 extra damage for one hit every 10s is another upgrade not really worthwhile.
Obs nerfed because sometimes they didn’t die is a big “?”
11 Likes
You were included in the “Black Book” of terran-hate after this blasphemous post.
Wow… just check this. Turns out it got a lot of views…
Anyway. I think it got a bit off topic.
Regardless of those that think it’s stronger or weaker than the marine/zergling (they have different roles, so honestly somewhat hard to pinpoint), the real questions is;
Should it actually be nerfed?
(Is it actually broken, if it’s strong. Given that it’s a core unit?)
Also, who tried to say that armour upgrades are not better depending on their opponents RoF?
Of course it is. If a unit has a lot of armour, then every time it gets hit, it’s getting back HP that would have ever wise been lost. If the RoF goes up, more HP is saved. This is why protoss armour upgrades are prioritised vs terran bio (stim).
The chargelot isn’t broken but it can completely route an attack. Which imo is the important part of the Chargelot. It holds off all sorts of allins. By making the Chargelot less impactful they make holding attacks muuuuch, much harder.
Overall, I think it’s a bad nerf. They’d have to buff the living hell out of Stalkers or Adepts to help hold off allins/cheeses and super strong timings like fast stim with 1 or 2 tanks…and buffing the hell out of Stalkers or Adepts is probably not a good idea.
On the flip side Chargelots are used for all-ins and mass warp in harassment frequently too.
There are ways to buff those two units without making them OP.
PS: In my mod Better Game Balance I gave a really good utility buff to the Adept, play with it sometime.
Honestly, if your mod had a ladder system and an active community. I’d consider it. But as it sits…I really, really like stomping on the necks of diamonds and low masters in unranked. Wrecking their preconceived bias with nonsensical builds tickles me pink.
I think the patch should change charge to +4 instead of +8 but make it scale with upgrades so plus 1 gives it +2, then plus 2 gives it +4 and then plus 3 +6 damage, seems pretty straight forward and a good way to keep up with the theme they have.
6 Likes
Your asking Charge to do 10 damage per hit at max attack upgrades.
The community can get active if people start playing it more and spreading the word.
Yes it’s called compensating a nerf with a buff as to not make a unit garbage.
You might notice that was the case with many nerfs, except protoss. Like how now the infestor spawns thors, or it got NP for free as a tradeoff for -1 range. The zealot simply got nerfed lol.
And the tempest “buff” is pure trash so it doesn’t count.
6 Likes
infesters are the best core unit in the game. marines are the second best core unit in the game. banelings are the third best core unit in the game. zealots are the 4th best unit in the game.
Honestly I think the zealot nerf is a bit overkill. IF you have to nerf it, just half the damage on impact and keep the upgrade to restore it back to full.
Honestly speaking though, I don’t think that the zealot nerf is necessary. They’re strong, very strong. But not unbeatable as long as you use the correct composition.
The difficulty with fighting zealots is not when you attack the protoss, rather it’s the other way around - when a protoss attacks you. As a terran you want to force them to fight you in a pre-prepared zone. If you can force that fight, you will win. This is a lot harder to do when the protoss attacks on your side of the map; a big part of which is warp-gate.
As I said though, I don’t think zealots are actually OP. TvP feels incredibly even to watch and play. If anything, I think that protoss is struggling in general right now (though I feel like they aren’t as bad as some people make them out to be in the PvT matchup).
9 Likes
zeals are broken in PvT but can be fixed
zeal are incredibly good in PvT. and is the number 1 one reason the match up highly favors toss. just about every terran build has to account for zeals. and zeals scale extremely well into the late game. yeah they need a nerf. how about removing charge impact all together. well atleast they removed it from “early” game so now terran can expand.
could even make them cost more or require more supply
Zealots or adepts are like the only core fighting (More expendable) units that p has really…
With this change, idk if zerg can just roll protoss? Feels like it’s zerg favored… And the facts show it is zerg favored.
They get map control, defensive scouting with creep and Ovies, easy scouting and map scouting with Ovies and lings, a 75/25 unit that wrecks all gateway units and forces immortals with a program to fight effectively against, the fastest flying unit that can shoot at ground units, army teleport button (nydus), swarm hosts, late game can tech switch up army comp (ultras can obliterate p armies that have been in fights and w/o immortals, carriers and tempest won’t do much to them for example)… Winfestors…like how many probes are allowed to die in a winning as protoss ZvP? 3?4?. How many drones? Like30? 40?
Zeals are good. And provide p with army supply…i don’t see Has winning many tournaments though…
And yeah chargelots are very good in TvP, but if played right alot of things can be very good…It is a fine balancing act I think in that match up because things can snowball one way or the other quickly…good moves to kill workers (for either side) for example or macro decisions like when to expand and stuff…also the T almost always go bio so the power spike once p gets splash plus have zealot/stalker core and a few robo (or sg I guess) units… I feel alot of t’s will not micro/macro well enough, to actually take good or even fights against the protoss main army…which obviously can snowball… the same way a big emp(s) can do that as well though.
Another kind of view, from me… Like as a protoss… You scout and make the units to counter your opponent…it’s an rts game! Like, I think of my army parts as tools… Usually you don’t just make tempests or carriers if you don’t need to you know…but some ppl think i guess it seems they can just always go with like the same composition no matter what and like don’t scout and lose to a bunch of gates/units build or builds, doesn’t make a unit op. I didnt express this thought well but yeah…I think the responses to a large number of cheap protoss army is not properly respected by the other races sometimes or often times…are they (chargelots) too good though…I would say no…if they were I think it would be obvious especially in ZvP.
2 Likes