Creep speed is a problem at all levels of play.
But at the highest level, imagine all the long drawn out micro battles on creep pros can show for all of us to “wow” at on both sides, the zerg and the terran or toss if creep doesnt give speed.
Imagine trying to claim imbalance off a sample size of a handful of players. Where individual differences between players are way more impactful than balance.
Especially when Zerg is underrepresented at every other league. Especially GM .
Shows how little you know of statistics, numbers and hell math in general.
This really isn’t the point though. sc2 is a game that has been patched and changed since its inception and zerg has dominated the top of tournaments for awhile now. its perfectly reasonable and even the status quo for other races that aren’t winning to expect a patch intended to shake this up.
Top 5 is better then every else that like trying to say rules basketball be change because certain players.
Theory craft Terran wins because they have hard counters vs Zerg only soft counters and to engage in poor trades to brake terrans defensive.
So only way Zerg wins is out skill.
Because late game is viper and gets hard countered by ghost. Only way viper wins is out right skill.
Bc is soft countered corrupters you need 4 of them if not 3 becomes 2z
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These are the people who think a single storm should melt 500 supply of zerg so it’s not like we can be surprised that this was their reaction.
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the rules in basketball aren’t always changing as far as i know, and its also not asymmetric. cant even compare. no balance issues in that game unless you want to talk genetics.
You are talking to Batz, he is either a very fat troll or a lunatic on moonshine with a degrees in numerology and astrology.
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Where are the “masterminds” now?
mimim Patch favor Zerg… Semi TvP / TvZ Final TvT.
self exposed that you are not so smart after all…
So much tears and pseudo knowledge about the game and balance, only to find that little changes at the top.
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This thread aged terribly. 
Yeah the patch is Zerg favored, the maps are pretty big, most of them. How did the zergs manage to fail, is beyond me.
At least Time vs Reynor was a very awesome series.
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not really.
for casual zerg it is better. for top zerg neutral.
Exactly what the goal was.
Excuse me:
- faster hydras
- faster brood lords
- smaller ultras + slop range - can reach and chase target easier
- ghost snipe nerf (indirect zerg buff)
- TINY nerf to creep tumors that is literally unnoticeable
So what was this patch ? Terran favored ?
And btw just because we have TvZ, TvP semis and TvT final doesnt mean anything - this is just the beginning, we’ll be able to judge this patch after some time has passed.
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It is actually a nerf for top Zergs because they are the only ones who are significantly affected by the creep and Viper changes. Ultras and Hydras still suck at the top level and the BL change was an overall nerf when both the speed and duration of broodlings are taken into consideration, particularly because of the brooding trick that was recently developed.
It is definitely a buff for lower level Zergs, and given how much Zergs have struggled anywhere outside the top 20 players in the world. I feel like the patch did exactly what it needed to do.
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Man, I hate it when people cherry pick patch notes and only list what is convenient.
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You missed the fact that the BL change is an overall nerf to BL since it’s main strength came from the waves of broodlings and how they mess up the AI.
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Ultra change is even TINIER than the creep change. They still suck at the top level and cannot run away from snipes even after the change.
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The creep tumor change is unnoticeable for anywhere outside the top 10 Zergs in the world. True, but for them it is actually a big deal as they do keep up of Creep tumors and it delays creep spread quite a bit.
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Are you really not going to say anything about the Viper change? like really?
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Another glaring omission is the Ravager build time.
Please next time you want to make a claim like this make sure you are intellectually honest and give the full picture rather than focusing only on what benefits your narrative.
Anyways this patch is hard to judge. But I’ll insist that drawing conclusions from top level play is stupid because individual skill plays a much larger role than balance to explain the difference of performance since the sample size is so small.
Overall this patch was needed because Zerg was underrepresented anywhere outside pro-level play. And it managed to nerf Zerg at the pro level and buff it everywhere else
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generally good.
better for casual Zerg.
Top Zergs like Reynor/Dark have better positioning. but lost Mass Broodlings style (for casual too micro intensive).
better overall.
small nerf, but you should also be happy about small things. Now you can at least partially run away from Ghost.
as said top play hits harder than casual. because top play makes longer efficient creep spread. ~mid+ less of a nerf because so much happens in the game. but early.
Let’s not forget Ravager’s influence on early aggro builds or def early - mid.
also viper → again more for top than casual lvl.
the outcry “zerg patch”, is not quite true. for casual better than for top zerg. If I remember correctly, that was the goal.
Viper is the only true nerf to the zerg - i forgot about that, but ravager is entirely irrelevant as long as you play normal game - it only affects 1 base cheese vs T and maybe some all-ins.
To be fair i don’t truly understand that snipe cancel - banes and fungals are the counter to ghost in TvZ, so by the time terran gets them zerg should have some infestors and banes ready as if damaging the ghost to cancel snipe was not enough.
Broodling duration is absolutely a nerf to BL, just because there is compensation does not nullify this.
Ravager nerf makes Zerg more vulnerable in the early game when Zerg is already at its weakest. So you are underplaying it.
Creep tumor is ABSOLUTELY significant for IEM level of play. Not for your games nor mine. The fact that you don’t notice it does not mean the players don’t.
Units sniped buy ghosts cannot really run away from them to begin with (Ultras and BL) so why even care? Maybe roaches can outrun them now, like it mattered. The only change is that it is harder to pick off ultras when they have not committed to an attack. And ultras suck even after the change so not a huge deal either.
And just make sure to acknowledge that at the top level. Hydra and Ultra change are irrelevant so you should not even mention it in a discussion of top level balance.
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???
That nerf is not noticable since you basically never see full duration of broodlings for BL in the first place
???
YEAH SURE. Thats why zerg can double expand instantly and hold off everything with queens. The nerf is only for zerg when they themselves want to get aggressive
Its not; It is only noticable in early game when they actually have the time to spread properly but not even serral hits the tumor timings on point and they have like dozens of active tumors anyways so it really doesnt matter that much.
???
its absouletly noticable/important. Many important units now have the chance to get out. Like for example vipers.
Now you are the one downplaying something
???
this is topnotch gaslighting. Ofc they notice it because nowadays they call hydralisk simply a marine. Have you seen the insane hit and run micro with focus fire? this melts archons now. its actually the other way round: its more noticeable in pro plays since they can actually abuse this stuff to the top.
Lay off the drugs mate. Most of the stuff i mentioned can even be read by statements from proplayers. Go see reddit. Most of the stuff ragnarok himself mentioned.
No one in the world doubts that this patch is favoring zerg but the question is wether they are now op (or more op) or not. And after the performance of zerg in this tourny i think the answer is pretty clear.
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thank you, terran isnt op and terran needs a buff
Ridiculous. If you have seen pro play leading up to this, the broodling trick was essentially removed. Moreover you would very often see the full duration of broodlings. You are just making that up.
All I am claiming is that it is a significant nerf since the person I was responding to wanted to make it look like it was not. Which you just acknowledged it as it significantly diminishes the ability of Zergs to be too greedy. I actually think the change is warranted. But to claim that it is not a significant nerf is ludicrous. .
You are severely under-playing the importance of creep in the early game to hold off attacks and how that early map control affects the rest of the game. Yes Zerg still spreads creep but the slower rate makes Zerg much more vulnerable. Again all I am claiming is that it is a significant nerf for the top-level. Which you and abs are trying to deny.
Did not think of that, will take that one. Although we do have to mention that vipers are also significantly weaker at the top-level (Double abduct impossible, and range of abduct effectively diminished).
Good to see that you left the ultra untouched as it is clear it means nothing for top level. Hydra may be slightly better but they still lose against everything they used to lose too and are still only really used as a stepping stone to lurkers since they die head to head against everything in ZvT since there is not much to kite vs Terran (change only has some effect in PvZ). Making the change irrelevant for pro-play (But pretty relevant for lower leagues where Hydras are more effective)