You and me enjoy basically the exact opposite things then. I despise long drawn-out slugfests passionately.
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Though I should add that I think getting kills is a lot harder than it should be in this game. There are few things more disheartening to me than watching a good play be undone by a Support pressing a button. It’s one reason I wound up playing a lot of Reinhardt; it’s tricky and usually requires a lot of patience, some on-point ability use and a team effort, but there’s not much that can stop you when you finally get loose in the backline.
But poke v poke often turns into more of a stalemate than a slugfest, because a good peek/good trade usually doesn’t amount to much when healing is so powerful, unless you’re playing one-shot characters.
Yea long drawn out slug fests are boring.
Fast paced skill based heroes is just more fun compared to slower paced, less skilled heroes.
If non dive heroes were just as hard, I wouldn’t mind. But the meta heroes the past months have been beyond braindead.
If you really think those heroes are braindead, I’d recommend getting to Grandmaster with them. Because when you’re up against people who have even a vague idea of what they’re doing, you’re gonna learn the limitations of a character real quick.
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I wouldn’t be able to even if I tried, because I’d most likely get bored halfway through.
I genuinely only find fast paced heroes fun. I’ll sometimes hop on an ashe here and there, but for the most part. Strictly mobility based heroes.
Dude I like dive but forcing power creep is moronic, they should be nerfing supports not doing this.
They’ve had 4-5 years to properly nerf supports.
They aren’t.
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I know but this is only adding to the problem, I like dive so I’m not that mad but its blatant power creep which is bad for balance.
Honestly the devs need firing.
This game has been power crept since Ana was added. It’s not just magically gonna stop now.
Which is why the balance and hero design devs need to be replaced
They were. And they’re still doing it.
replaced by actual competent devs not more idiots
Well, in that case, you can dislike other playstyles without accusing them of being braindead.
I mean, sure, it takes a lot of skill to know when/how to dive and how to turn it into a kill, but with mobility comes the luxury of being able to pick your fights. For the most part, you control when and where the fight happens. You can wait for the enemy to be at a disadvantage, and then swoop in for the kill. You can largely ignore Heroes on the enemy team you can’t deal with.
Poke doesn’t have that; the enemy’s coming for you whether you like it or not. Got jumped on by a Genji? Win the 1v1 or die. Are you face-to-face with the enemy Dark Souls Boss- I mean, Tank? Good luck, shmucko. Tank was out of position to peel? Well, better hope that walking speed is enough to get him where he needs to be.
I will never say that Dive is an invalid playstyle or takes no skill; that’s just silly. My dislike of it is purely personal preference, and I do my best to evaluate the game’s balance dispassionately.
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Defensive metas were a response to broken offensive playstyles and characters. People would love to try new things if there wasn’t the threat of getting instantly obliterated. People liked Goats, they didn’t like how long it lasted but they liked it so much because they weren’t instantly getting sent to spawn by dive and/or from across the map by Widow/Hanzo when goats got nerfed and the game returned to widow/hanzo melting stuff, the community switched to double-barrier, because again, the majority of people don’t like getting burst down so quickly, especially from across the map.
I’ve played every hero in it and mained multiple of them, people are really misremembering the amount of skill dive takes and it’s because a lot of them didn’t actually play dive, they just played the characters. The strategy was extremely simple and easy (or I got lucky to play with people with common sense/basic awareness) and extremely unfun for the support players which is why they added the potential solution to it into the support role.
You can’t because this is a false statement. The dive characters influenced so many other problems but they are the root. It’s easy to blame Brigitte, Moira, or Sigma shield for causing problems yet Tracer, Genji, and Widow influenced those problems to be created in the first place as well as justified them to an extent.
Free value doesn’t exist. Characters press buttons and they do things, that’s how abilities work. There is no mini game or skill check everyone has to do that illari doesn’t in order to use their abilities. If a stationary single-target, low health turret is outplaying you, use the character with the free and infinite value of being invisible to easily kill it and I’m speaking from experience.
I don’t personally like pylon, don’t need it and repositioning it is annoying. I would gladly take another healing abilities that has better skill expression but that would get whined about as well since it would still slow down people’s burst damage.
Tracers aren’t losing Lucio 1v1s and he still has to aim his gun. The solution is to not design a hero who instantly teleports around the map with a small hitbox and good damage.
Tracer is literally designed to counter having good mechanical skill. That is why she has been so good in the higher tiers of play for years. She is not just performing well against supports, She is designed to have the advantage and avoid/counter “skill”. You cannot design something that takes a lot of “skill” to counter a character designed to counter “skill”. Nobody is saying “Go Lucio to counter the Tracer”, that’s not how it works.
People want to talk about Tracer’s skill yet blinks and recall don’t take much skill at all. You can keep the aim requirement of her guns and her ult but those aren’t the problematic parts of her kit.
The only way they can make it truly a “skill” matchup is to give a support the same instant mobility and invulnerability/reposition/burst heal/self-cleanse. If Lucio didn’t need walls and had a faster, hitscan gun, yeah, that would probably be a closer “skill” matchup.
Supports objectively have more responsibility and less freedom than damage characters. They are not going to make every single thing in their kits aim-intensive. Crutches exist within every role. Blinks are a crutch, recall is a crutch, deflect is a crutch, dash is a crutch, storm arrows are a crutch, sonic arrow is a crutch, biotic field is a crutch, helix rocket is a crutch, widow’s grapple is a crutch, bastion is a crutch, sojourns mobility and meatball is a crutch, dynamite and coach gun are crutches, wraith form is a crutch, mag nade and fth are crutches, ice block is a crutch, JR mines are a crutch, barriers are a crutch, TaB is a crutch, etc…
Idk why you’re acting like supports are the only characters who have abilities that do things and aren’t mechanically demanding yet useful.
Tracer has good damage, good mobility, and effectively 299 hp including an invulnerability/cleanse.
People only regard her so highly because she doesn’t have another easy ability to help deal damage like helix rockets or Sojourns meatball. What Tracer has shown throughout the history of the game is that when you have so much freedom to instantly reposition yourself, you don’t need another abilities in those fights because you already do great damage and are extremely hard to hit and impossible to have your movement consistently predicted.
They attempted a proper drawback with the lower health but it is negated by recall being instant and cleansing, repositioning, and making her invulnerable. everyone in the lobbies she has historically dominated the most, have skill, Tracer is just as cheesy as other characters and because blinks/recall are so cheesy, they have allowed her to perform so well. She doesn’t have as much responsibility for her team like a support or rank does, either, she is free to hunt how she sees fit and as long as she is landing shots and doing her thing, she is performing just fine. She doesn’t have to worry about simultaneously keeping her frontline alive while defending herself from a flanker nor does she have to think about the possibility of leaving herself vulnerable so she can use one of her abilities to same a teammate, instead.
People putting Tracer on such a high pedestal is insane. She isn’t the easiest character to play by any means but she also isn’t the pinnacle of skill, balance, and fairness, she’s far from it.
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Big brain meta aka “3…2…1… GOING ON ANA” XD Better than bunker comps with Bastion for sure but let’s not pretend it’s some pinacle of skill either.
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The meta will take a moment to form but it seems like dive will be back. Doom/Winston with Brig/Ana and some Kiriko/Lucio as other options. While dps will be Tracer/Sombra with Genji/Ashe as optional.
Balance and fairness? No. Pinnacle of skill? Probably. Tracer has very well done learning curve where the better you get the more you receive. Many heroes get capped at some point where skill starts to become less and less impactful (like Rein, even the best Rein in the world will eventually suffer against other good players on counter picks). Tracer isn’t offering free value, you can’t just pick up her and expect to be even decent at her. To be effective you need to use her mobility well and land your shots. Is she balanced? Far from it, she is historically one of the most broken heroes for years in high elo. But people rarely get upset about her because unlike simpler heroes, she kinda has to work hard every time to outplay people and she needs to play at range where you can fight back unlike Widow or something.
I know the pain of fighting amazing Tracer. I would take it over Widow or pocketed Sojourn any day of the week. I would also take her over many cheese comps like Pharah Mercy that can’t be interacted with on tank role.
What do you mean, “rarely get upset about her”? People have been talking about how scary and/or annoying she can be since OW1 launched. I still remember the old animated parody videos, which are still mostly applicable today:
Dopatwo makes funny content about all heroes, not just Tracer memes xD. I wouldn’t use him as an example, he just makes animations for laughs, even Moira got her spotlight.
What I mean “rarely upset”? People in low ranks don’t play Tracer at all because she is too hard for them. And for the top players she is usually well respected hero because you can’t just pick up Tracer and start winning like with OG Brig, release Sojourn etc. clearly overtunned heroes. She is strong in good player hands but terrible in bad hands. Orisa in general is deemed as low skill yet very effective hero for example. In dps role it’s usually long range hitscans. Tracer is defended by people because they respect the time it takes to get good at the hero unlike many with low skill high value cooldowns. Pressing Blinks is easy. Using them effectively while aiming well at the target is not. Her ult is a skillshot which is very rare in OW where most ults are trivial to land and are mostly about timing.
Well, read the top comment, “A good Tracer is truly terrifying”. You don’t see comments like that on most of the others. And watch the video; it’s not just a video of your teammates making silly mistakes or the enemy team pulling off some cheesy tactic; it’s a Tracer who makes herself virtually untouchable and practically solos the entire team.
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