That doesn’t make it good. There is no lesser evil.
You’re right it wasn’t good, but its the most diverse this game has ever been. A hero that enables everyone being OP meant you could be anyone.
But it is useless to come back to that. It is not a solution, just another dead end. The best meta is no meta.
Its by no means what we should strive for, but being ok with an even worse state seems worse. If you were in a cold shower, and decided to switch it to scalding hot, would you just sit there scalding until you realized its less painful to be cold? The world isn’t perfect, and an imperfect Mercy made this game better than it ever has been.
I don’t find current OW worse than Mercywatch. Actually, Mercywatch is THE WORST state of the game to my opinion. As I said above, it didn’t only limit hero compositions, it made every match Mercy based, instead of objective based. It was the only state of the game that made me drop it for a while.
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Hardly anything has changed about Ana though? None big enough to warrant a change to her kit. The only thing buffed in her kit was her ammo capacity and how allies get a burst of heal from nano.
Mercy is just not good at healing but in other areas she is just way good at. Easy and unblock-able healing with a easy escape/mobility on a low CD and the best ability on a 30 sec CD as well. Her ult is also just mass heals while she becomes almost invincible.
Overall I think a Mercy buff is fine but we shouldn’t just say more healing and bam that’s it. Cause right now Mercy has a amazing kit but with just a little low on heals and if we do only buff her healing what would stop her from reigning champion on best healer again?
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Because she is fine.
She doesn’t need any changes.
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You have some good points. But you dont want an answer to that question…lol.
No Brigitte patch by itself doesn’t, but Brigitte and the support patch together do, or do I need to explain how the Brigitte propels a tank meta (just like the support patch did)?
If they were Mercy is broken? There’s another possibility: Ana is overtuned and competing with Mercy where she shouldn’t. She is too good at supporting non tank heavy comps as showed by her current rates and OWL usage along side Mercy.
The comp that favours Ana, from which deviates the current meta, had already proven to be that strong in Open Division S2 before the Ana buffs and Mercy 60HP/s nerf. The support patch overdid it by buffing GOATS and nerfing Mercy at the same time.
Moira GOATS still ravaged its way through open division. I guess those guys didn’t know how to play snipers?
Yet dunked by Ana, in 2-2-2 and in OWL, being played with 3 DPS, where Mercy should shine.
It is literally as close to 33% tanks as it gets. If you think Gold is playing tank heavy I suggest getting a smurf and going there. You have to slap a mofo to get a main tank. Gold cares not for tank heavy and will play Ana instead of Mercy, even though Ana is the more skilled hero.
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Since Ana’s ability to keep teammate alive improve with skill of Ana(better accuracy), while Mercy is stuck at 50-60 hps and it’s teammate who has to be better.
It’s more foolproof, when only one player has to improve, compared to improving all 5.
I’d also like to point out that just because they’re in the top 6, doesn’t mean they’re all being picked in the same team. Like, the first three supports are Ana, Moira, Mercy, but you don’t want all three main supports on the same team. That’s too much healing and too much competition between the three supports that you’ll hardly get a support ult, and none of them are really solid defensive ultimates either so you leave your team open to big ult combos like Grav+anything or Nanoblade.
Tanks and supports are at the top because a team needs tanks and supports for a stable team comp. Not because the mid ranks are playing 3-3.
There’s also the fact that there are more tanks than there are DPS. So 1 tank being picked out of 7 is going to have a higher pickrate than 1 DPS out of 16.
That’s why tanks and supports cover the top 6. The only exception this month is Diamond - they have Genji in the fourth spot. Probably because of the Nanoblade combo. But it’s still an outlier nevertheless.
So because of that context, it’s unfair to say ladder plays 3-3 or some other 3-tank comp just because the top six most picked heroes are tanks and supports. Tanks and supports have always been at the top of pickrates just because of how few there are and how they are required for a good team comp.
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If you do nothing but watch then I can see how you think it’s boring.
Right now is the first time… I think ever… where picking Ana, Torb, Bastion, Symm etc isn’t a guaranteed loss.
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She is a well balanced, fun to play, and effective hero
She is and always has been a main healer
Those who dont feel she is these things have over 2 dozen other characters to choose from and thousands of other games to play instead
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sorry because I didn’t read your whole post but this statement reminded me of something I read, possibly on this thread actually just can’t remember who said it and I’m too lazy to go through it all
Statistically one hero will always be at the top and one hero will always be at the bottom, there’s 7 supports currently and even if all of them were perfectly balanced the people who look at Mercy negatively would complain even if the difference was .1%, just because she’s at the bottom (which she isn’t…Moira is the one at the bottom) or being less picked than other supports doesn’t mean she’s “trash”, most likely it means she’s out of the meta
People complain a lot about Ana being at the top now but in reality Ana is the only one who should be at the top considering how hard her kit is to use in comparison, even moira being at the bottom means nothing, the character is perfectly fine and nor her nor Mercy have direct 100% counters (unlike Tracer when brig was super OP)
So what is it then? why can’t people understand that Mercy is statistically fine? if she’s boring to you that’s one thing but don’t try to argue her viability saying that she’s the “worst” support by far, because she isn’t!
also I realized I just ranted at you but this post is more directed to the rest of the people following this thread xD sorry about that
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Do you even remember what your original point was?
Like, you’re saying brigitte was added and ana was buffed, two completely different incidents that were months apart, and that somehow invalidates the only change on mercy was her healing nerf from when she was a 100% pick.
You then went on to try to say that goats was already destroying teams when mercy had 60hp’s, which is a lie, and had absolutely nothing to do with the original topic.
Either you’re attempting to move the goalposts or you’re off on a seriously random tangent.
So let me say it again. Support balance patch and brigitte patch, two totally different patches. Mercy at 60hps, was still being played in triple support, grav dragon and one shot. Ana was still F tier. Brigitte was out for all of those.
a tank heavy meta? Ana shouldn’t compete with mercy… in a tank heavy meta?
her winrate, that’s actually lower than mercy’s even in masters, is too good at supporting non tank heavy comps?
Or is this where you’re trying to say gold wasn’t running tanks with zarya, d.va and rein being in the top 6.
well they’re certainly playing more tanks and supports than dps, the pickrate really doesn’t lie in that regard.
??? You showed mercy and ana playing together in 3/2/1 in owl. We know the meta comp was brig/zen/lucio from the link i provided showing hero pickrates for overwatch league this season. Not ana or mercy.
So basically you’re saying ana dunks on mercy cause they’re both neither meta and played together? Like, you realize how ridiculous that claim is right?
It didn’t, stop lying.
Never said they were. I did say they were playing tank heavy however, and given the pickrates of them, there is actually a pretty great chance they’ve been played together numerous times.
and just for the record, you were actually trying to build this strawman all along, i get it now.
Look. Mercy is perfectly viable in every single elo right now. There is nothing bad about her. The meta is even shifting to one that she excels at with pharmercy and one shot coming back, as well as different bunker comps.
You’re mad that ana’s pick rate is high, and somehow think that means she’s overtuned, but you’re completely neglecting the fact 85% of the player base are actually doing horrible with her, and would be better off running mercy… who still has respectable pick rates and better winrates.
I’m not entirely sure the complaint here. Bad players do bad with Ana? like, yeah, that’s kinda the point. Are you trying to say ana does better than mercy the better an ana player is? I mean, put ana in dive and see who fairs better, mercy or ana.
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Honestly, I think the issue isn’t with Mercy herself, it’s with the state of the game. It’s all about burst right now, really. Sustain damage heroes like Soldier and Bastion don’t really have a place. And when you’re looking for a main support, you want someone with high burst at the moment. Hence Ana. Long term sustain doesn’t have a place in the game right now. It’s been this way for a while.
Mercy was only able to stick around for as long as she did because people were able to build comps that she could enable best. But now that people have comps that really make the most out of the burst that heroes like Ana can make use of, Mercy’s starting to move with the rest of the sustain heroes.
Like, that’s what I think the issue is. It’s all about burst at the moment that the sustain Mercy brings isn’t what the team needs or wants. Again, they could build the team to be enabled by Mercy, but when it comes down to it, it’s really about burst. The only sustained healing that the team will take is AoE sustained healing.
So yeah, Mercy isn’t the worst support. If we’re talking about worst support, Moira probably wins that one. She is the only support that has absolutely no utility to speak of. After that, probably Brigitte since she can only get the most out of her kit in brawl comps, and then Mercy after that. She’s about in the middle of the pack.
But I still understand why they’re frustrated. For me, the biggest frustration for me is that they nerfed her and buffed her competition in the same patch. I feel they should have buffed Ana and Moira, and wait and see what happens. And if Mercy still dominates and there are no signs of her dropping, then go ahead and drop the healing nerf. As it stands, we really have no way of knowing if 60HP/s was really the problem, or if it was something to do with chain beams or rez.
They did the same thing with Ana back in S4 too, I believe. They nerfed her and then buffed Winston, one of her biggest counters, in the same patch. Ana did get hurt harder back then, granted, but it’s more or less the same song and dance. Just a different verse.
Oh, and don’t worry about it! I don’t mind reading rants at all, really. It’s essentially a word vomit and you’re getting all this off your chest and the more words we vomit, the better. Makes for pretty good discussion when we go off on rants like that!
And if you kept reading, you would have also gotten this:
I play in around gold and plat. Tank heavy comps are a rarity here. At least from what I’ve seen. Tanks in general are rare here, especially main tanks. Just about any comp works, so long as you have at least one tank or one support (unless the enemy team has more tanks or supports than you, then results may vary). I’ve seen just about anything from 4-1-1 to 2-2-2, but 3-3 has almost never been played. Or any triple tank comp for that matter. The only time I’ve seen 3-3 is from a 6-stack. I’ve watched it on OWL and heard about it so much that I want to play it to get a better idea of just how it works, but nobody runs it down in gold and plat. It’s been triple DPS, quad DPS, or 2-2-2. The last time I’ve seen a team run a tank heavy comp in those ranks was S3. Ever since then, it’s been a variety, then dive (or at least mid-rank uncoordinated dive), and then variety again.
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I agree with you it’s more the state of the game, but i wouldn’t say it’s all about burst. We’re running really tanky comps specifically so teams don’t get bursted down. Sustain healing was mandatory for dive and one shot specifically, since you wanted to stay max hp or you would be bursted down. You could say burst healing is better for tank heavy comps, and it only stands to reason. You want those tanks healed as quick as possible, so they don’t get bursted down, which even in goats they still do.
yeah i completely neglected to touch that part intentionally. If your theory was correct, which mind you it does have some merrit, but lacks context, then plat would never have had dive dps hero’s in their top 6 during dive, it would have been tanks. There meta tanks were there, but so was the meta dps, and the meta healers.
basically you’re right, the pick rates are slightly skewed. But you’re seriously over exaggerating how much they’re skewed by.
I can understand this, sadly we can only hope for blizz to know more than what they give out
That being said, I would like it if you checked out my proposed changes to Mercy that I made on the workshop:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/mercy-4-0-by-hige
Since I made it with the mindset of giving mercy the option of increasing her sustained healing on a single target briefly and also giving her burst healing upon casting valk, I think this is the perfect middle ground for everyone on these discussions, those who want mass rez and those who dont, those who want mercy buffed and those who don’t, she plays almost the same but has these added things that makes her so much more dynamic which also targets those who find her boring and those who like her current playstyle…
Because ana players are crybabies and will cry and moan if any healer has more healing
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I actually went through the pickrates according to overbuff to see what was getting picked. Basically, what I did, was I looked at gold in a timespan of a month, and added up all the tank pickrates, all the support pickrates, and all the DPS pickrates. And here is what I got:
Tanks: 32.31%
Supports: 35.82%
Damage: 31.87%
So if anything, there is more weight on the support side of things than the tank side of things. Tanks and Damage are pretty close to each other in terms of pickrates. Tanks are picked more, but not by too much. I might do this for some of the other ranks too, just to get a general idea of what they’re running. That’s probably something for its own thread, though.
As someone who plays between gold and plat, I doubt they’re playing tank heavy comps. Since I play those games, and I almost never see tank heavy comps except for in an act of desperation.
But we’re really getting nowhere here. We’ll just be going back and forth at this point. So…agree to disagree?
I’ll be sure to check it out when I have time! Reading through it, it sounds pretty neat, so I’ll probably check it out on the Workshop once I can get around to it.
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