Why shouldn't Mercy be buffed?

[Yara-11173]

@KazTehOne-1516

Do you even remember what your original point was?

Yes, I was talking about how Brig enables tank heavy comps, thus Ana.

@KazTehOne-1516

Like, you’re saying brigitte was added and ana was buffed, two completely different incidents that were months apart, and that somehow invalidates the only change on mercy was her healing nerf from when she was a 100% pick.

They are different but unless Blizz is removing patches when the new ones hit, they have cumulative effect, do they not? Or does the fact that they were added at different times means they have difference consequences? Two patches can and often will, add together to achieve the same effect.

Both patches enabled Ana and the problem is that even before the support patch, tank heavy comp was already on the rise, thus the support patch overdid it.

@KazTehOne-1516

You then went on to try to say that goats was already destroying teams when mercy had 60hp’s, which is a lie, and had absolutely nothing to do with the original topic.

Open Division Season 2 makes it a truth. GOATS - the team, no the composition - won first place only losing a single match before playing 3-3. The Moira GOATS comp did not lose a single round and played against double sniper, 3 DPS and so on, when Mercy had 60HP/s.

@KazTehOne-1516

Either you’re attempting to move the goalposts or you’re off on a seriously random tangent.

So let me say it again. Support balance patch and brigitte patch, two totally different patches. Mercy at 60hps, was still being played in triple support, grav dragon and one shot. Ana was still F tier. Brigitte was out for all of those.

The goal post remains the same: Ana is overtuned.

Grav Dragon literally cannot exist anymore and had nothing to do with 60HP/s.

Double sniper couldn’t cut it in GOATS meta, even with 60HP/s, as demonstrated by the GOATS team themselves in Open Divsion S2.

I’ll say it again as well: Support patch over did it. They overnerfed Mercy and overbuffed Ana, making her outshadow Moira and Mercy. Two different patches that have a cumulative effect. Ana was still F tier because she had yet to have received her recent buff and Moira was still being the best in 3-3.

[vversacevamp-1276]

mercy won’t get buffed because ana players will have a fit if a mercy gets more healing than their “lul git gud” hero
and thats the tea on that

[Yara-11173]

You edited your post while I was posting, I’m afraid.

@KazTehOne-1516

a tank heavy meta? Ana shouldn’t compete with mercy… in a tank heavy meta?

Ana shouldn’t compete with Mercy in DPS heavy comps. She is doing exactly that.

@KazTehOne-1516

??? You showed mercy and ana playing together in 3/2/1 in owl. We know the meta comp was brig/zen/lucio from the link i provided showing hero pickrates for overwatch league this season. Not ana or mercy.

So basically you’re saying ana dunks on mercy cause they’re both neither meta and played together? Like, you realize how ridiculous that claim is right?

I’m saying even when the tank heavy meta is not played, either be OWL or ladder - which is mostly 2-2-2 given the overbuff numbers, Ana still there because Mercy is not enough.

@KazTehOne-1516

It didn’t, stop lying.

I’ll let the facts speak for themselves. This was run in patch 1.24. I’m sure I don’t have to tell anyone what comp the GOATS team ran.

https://i.postimg.cc/sxMJg0zL/gaots.jpg

[Isaribi-21967]

Mercy threads always boil down to two parties not being able to agree to disagree and that’s all because of being subjective. And too much of that.

You can’t just tell someone that doesn’t like her state right now that she is fine and fun for you and expect them to agree and move on with their life. ( Which most people do and they support it with ridiculous arguments ) Nor does it work the other way.

But back on topic. 60 HPS was not the reason Mercy was OP, she was nerfed because the community complained about her and the devs ran out of things to nerf. Since healing is the easiest thing to do so with, they went with that. They couldn’t increase the cast time any further because it would make Rez useless, nor could they increase the CD. So healing it is. There is no possible way that her healing, which is the only somewhat constant thing in her kit and was buffed previously because it was needed, is the thing that makes her OP.

I for one have accepted that her base healing itself won’t be buffed. Not because she doesn’t need it but because the devs won’t dare to buff it because the community would freak out in a negative way. What I would love to see though is an ability which allows her to temporarily increase it on whatever target she needs to. Burst damage has taken over and she as a main healer should be able to fight against that. Currently, she can’t.

[Yara-11173]

@KazTehOne-1516

well they’re certainly playing more tanks and supports than dps, the pickrate really doesn’t lie in that regard.

And it shows a ladder mostly playing around 33% of each role, thus it is not tank heavy.

Must I do the math for you or do you have access to a calculator and overbuff before calling me liar?

I’m done.

[Cleopatra-21937]

@KazTehOne-1516

Bad players do bad with Ana?

You missed my point again. Bad players do better with Ana, than with Mercy. Because Ana heals them more, so them being bad matters less. Who cares, if you are bad at avoiding damage, when your healer pumps out healing like no tomorrow?

[Krikenemp-1823]

Because power creep is a thing.

How do you know those buffs wouldn’t break her again? Where is the evidence that she’s dead now?

Buffs should be done when there is a reason for them, so prove there is a reason Mercy needs one.

[Krikenemp-1823]

In what world does a bad Ana with low accuracy outheal a Mercy with 100% accuracy? Heal amount doesn’t matter if you can’t apply it to people.

[ThiccBuddha-1468]

In a World of Tanks™.

[Krikenemp-1823]

So OWL? I thought the ladder was mostly 5 DPS?

[Cleopatra-21937]

@Krikenemp-1823

In what world does a bad Ana with low accuracy outheal a Mercy with 100% accuracy? Heal amount doesn’t matter if you can’t apply it to people.

It’s not Ana bad, it’s other players bad. It’s more common to find 1 good player, than 5 good players.

What if Ana is good, but rest of the players are bad? Not a big deal, she got enough healing for that to be irrelevant. What happens, if same with Mercy? It’s lost game.

[ThiccBuddha-1468]

It is rare, but those triple tank games happen every now and again.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Even outside of those games, Ana still has higher potential. Worst case scenario one can throw biotic nade at DPS.

[ThiccBuddha-1468]

She can definitely keep two tanks topped off WAY easier than Mercy. But I get Hella neglected as a DPS when we get an Ana… So I prefer Mercy. Lul.

[KazTehOne-1516]

@vversacevamp-1276

mercy won’t get buffed because ana players will have a fit if a mercy gets more healing than their “lul git gud” hero

mercy already outheals ana’s average per game though? What kinda biased opinion is this.

@Nano-13754

Because ana players are crybabies and will cry and moan if any healer has more healing

the above applies to you too btw.

@Yara-11173

Ana shouldn’t compete with Mercy in DPS heavy comps. She is doing exactly that.

she doesn’t. If anything Ana’s played as an off healer in dps comps, while mercy’s main healer. and ana’s only played as off on defense, and switched for zen on attack.

@Yara-11173

I’m saying even when the tank heavy meta is not played , either be OWL or ladder - which is mostly 2-2-2 given the overbuff numbers, Ana still there because Mercy is not enough.

since when was ana supposed to be bad in 2/2/2? if that 2/2/2 is rein, zarya, soldier, genji, lucio, of course ana’s going to be great in that team comp. Is mercy supposed to be the only 2/2/2 healer in the game or something?

@Yara-11173

I’ll let the facts speak for themselves. This was run in patch 1.24. I’m sure I don’t have to tell anyone what comp the GOATS team ran.

The team that created goats, playing moira goats, isn’t exactly “ravaging” open division. In fact, that’s when teams adopted goats, when the meta was still very much 2 sniper.

@Cleopatra-21937

Bad players do bad with Ana?

You missed my point again. Bad players do better with Ana, than with Mercy.

Your point is a lie, the stats more than show this. Mercy has a better win rate than Ana all the way through to masters. I’m not sure who you’re trying to fool here.

@Yara-11173

And it shows a ladder mostly playing around 33% of each role, thus it is not tank heavy.

You realize that’s not how any of this works right? If these hero’s are picked the most often, they’re being played… the most often. Not necessarily together, but they’re certainly being played a lot. You didn’t see 3 tanks in the top 6 spots during dive, because 3 tanks weren’t being played the most.

@Yara-11173

I’m done.

You’ve really been done, you’re just repeating yourself in different words at this point with a bunch of points that have been debunked with your own data, when we actually apply context, and mine.

@Yara-11173

Do you even remember what your original point was?

Yes, I was talking about how Brig enables tank heavy comps, thus Ana.

Yeah okay, lets burn this strawman down once and for all. You’re saying Brigitte enables tank heavy comps, so ana’s the go to healer. But brigitte was out and Mercy was still the go to healer. Now the support patch comes along, mercy get’s toned down after being must pick for a year+, other supports get buffed, ana starts to see some play on ladder, is still anything but meta in pro play, and you think Ana’s the one who’s overtuned, when by your own accord… brigitte enables tank comps.

Alright sure.

@Yara-11173

Both patches enabled Ana

Then where was Ana when brigitte was released? lmao.

@Yara-11173

Open Division Season 2 makes it a truth.

Anything but. One team playing one comp does not mean goats was everywhere. That’s not how any of this works.

@Yara-11173

The Moira GOATS comp did not lose a single round and played against double sniper, 3 DPS and so on, when Mercy had 60HP/s.

and when other teams adopted it, moira goats got stomped. The original point before you tried to move the goalposts to the first team playing goats ever.

@Yara-11173

The goal post remains the same: Ana is overtuned.

You know what, you’re right. Without any context what’s so ever, you’re absolutely right, it makes a lot more sense.

[Cleopatra-21937]

@KazTehOne-1516

Your point is a lie, the stats more than show this. Mercy has a better win rate than Ana all the way through to masters. I’m not sure who you’re trying to fool here.

I explained to you logic behind picking Ana more.

[KazTehOne-1516]

@Cleopatra-21937

I explained to you logic behind picking Ana more.

Yeah, you’re logic was bad players do better with Ana, factually incorrect. Mercy has better win rates from bronze to masters currently.

If anything, bad players are playing ana because ana’s meta right now, even if they’re not playing ana to her fullest and would be better off playing mercy. Again, to nobodies surprise, people try to play the meta hero’s even if they can’t effectively play the meta. We saw the same thing in dive.

[Cleopatra-21937]

For the last time, I am talking about good Ana playing with bad teammates. Which works better, than Mercy in similar situation.

And I rarely saw any meta - players just pick whatever they like.

[KazTehOne-1516]

@Cleopatra-21937

For the last time, I am talking about good Ana playing with bad teammates. Which works better, than Mercy in similar situation.

So different healers do different things and are better in different situations than others would be? shocker.

[Cleopatra-21937]

It’s normal situation, though, so Mercy not working it in is very bad. Would rather not rely on ability of one player, that was accused of smurfing multiple times, to carry game by himself.