I do not personally find my experience to be irrelevant
I consider mass rez to be the very worst thing that could be added (re-added?) to Mercy’s design due to my experience with this ult
Leaving out important context is manipulative to a narrative you wish to fulfill.
The “Mercy is fine” narrative that exists simply because you like her.
I too have a narrative that I wish people to understand, but I am not going to pick one portion of their sentence that can make my words true while ignoring that they said other things that make my words less true. I acknowledge the whole sentence and reference the part I disagree with but also explain why I think what they said is untrue or agree with the part that is of value and also explain how I see that section. There is a difference to what you have been doing to fulfill your narrative and what others here have been doing.
I never changed anything you wrote either, I simply highlighted a section that can allow me to make whatever argument I wish to make and left out the part that disprove what I was saying. Nothing changed, I simply left out a part so it made you look like you were saying something else and I could make the point I was making.
Which is what you do.
Your “I respectfully disagree” that you don’t even explain you position is just your way of dodging people’s questions so you can come off correct.
You have never said:
“I respectfully disagree because of A reason. This reason is because I believe the following occurs _______________”
Instead we get “I respectfully disagree because this is good and I like it.”
That’s not an argument, that is your preference and you won’t convince anyone like that and if you aren’t here to convince anyone that this Mercy is good, then why are you here? You are simply wasting people’s time if you come here to try and shut down arguments with “I like this”, that doesn’t explain what makes it balanced, fair, good, strong, etc. especially when there have been plenty of reasons, statistics, evidence, analysis, etc showing the complete opposite.
Streams from pro players were calling for her head simply because people had found a way to exploit the ladder and it was sabotaging other players in the process. SR Exploit promoting bad behaviour.
Streams from pro players have spent tons of time calling her skill-less and brain dead, when she was so far from it and used the excuse of hiding because they can’t open their eyes.
People don’t want to think strategy and in a game like Overwatch, that should not be supported by the devs and it is for the sake of having flashy pro play so they can make esports money. Unfortunately, the business tactic doesn’t work because if the community is disappointed in the game, there is less of a community interested in watching the game.
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Of course you don’t find it that way, but the statistics show that your experience is irrelevant in the grand scheme of the game.
The statistics show that your experience is a very uncommon one.
It shows that your experience is not really one that should be taken into consideration because it does not effect the majority of the playerbase.
In the proposed original rework on this post, there is a method that would actually greater DECREASE this effect that you speak off that statistically happens very rarely, so why you should be against it, I have no clue.
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Yeah but you’ve already said before that you play on console so your experiences don’t really apply to PC overwatch in the slightest.
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I don’t think that’s a major factor tbh. Symm and torb were nerfed in their turrets on console only but they were never largely picked. I think there are differences but not too the degree people think there is.
True, but there are still much larger advantages that characters with limited aim mechanics have on a console over people on PC.
Aiming with a mouse is simply more precise at most levels of play and thus you are more likely to encounter more difficult players sooner that use aiming characters on PC compared to console.
Just because even on console, people try to prioritize aim because they link it to skill, doesn’t mean those characters didn’t have particular advantages even if they were underplayed.
Mercy is likely a huge advantage on console because using sticks to aim while a Mercy who doesn’t have to aim as much is flying about will be much harder to aim up, especially if you have to lower sensitive to aim more precisely, you can only turn so fast because you are limited to your maximum turn speed.
A mouse can have a low DPI/Sensitivity and still turn much quicker due to arm movements.
Yes. They are tunnel visioned in a lot of ways. I’m confident I could have a logical discussion with them, as they acknowledge logic. Appealing to the generalisms and abstracts, context and subtext, etc, would not be a part of me discussing a subject with them. I recognize itd lead no where.
Because of fundamental design issues regarding Mass Rez. There is a reason all comparable forms of Rez in other games are single target.
I disagree. I think it’s single target in other games because it’s a mechanic spread out. Mercy is the only person in overwatch with this mechanic
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So why is there no other game, be it MOBA or FPS that has a Mass Rez mechanic? Where people who have been killed are brought back en masse?
The only example I’ve been made aware of is from Dirty Bomb and it was hellsqueen that brought that to my attention. It however has a knocked system, where if a person is the confirmed after being knocked, they are not effected by the rez. That makes it quite different.
I’m saying mass Rez is a bit more powerful as a mechanic because only one hero has it. Rez isn’t as strong as we make it out to be nor mass rez. It’s just stronger in overwatch because no one other than Mercy can do it. This is seen also with Lucio where his monopoly of speed makes it that much better.
Speed is good. Rez is good. But why can Lucio give so much speed? Why can mercy and was mercy able to rez so Much? Because no one else can.
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Huh?
What does multiple heroes having a rez mechanic have to do with Mass Rez as a mechanic? Mercy has single target rez now. So let’s give Lucio, Zen, and Ana and whoever single rez too. Cool. What does that have to do with Mass Rez?
Most Rez mechanics require a certain class, or certain kit, to be taken in order to perform it. Not legit everyone can do it.
I really have no idea what you’re trying to argue. Just because Mercy is the only one that can rez that means she should have Mass Rez? No man.
mass rez as a function was never broken because rez itself isn’t “that” powerful. Mercy’s monopolization makes it restricted so that advantage is that much more to your team’s benefit.
The power comes from how limited it is.
Again, let’s look at lucio and how he has been in more Metas than any other hero in the game. The meta centered around Lucio so often? Why? Because of his monopolization of speed. Lucio is more powerful because of his unique mechanic. Similarly, Ana is more powerful because of her unique monopolization to cut off healing.
Let’s look at mercy and rez. some other games restrict it to class, yes. But it isn’t usually a restriction on how many a team can have that can rez. Nor how many times that person CAN rez. OR the whole team can rez and it’s just longer to do. The rez mechanic isn’t so valuable there because it’s available in many forms.
I’m not saying Mercy needs Mass rez. I’m saying there is no fundamental design flaws to it. Mass Rez isn’t that powerful because Rez isn’t that powerful. Design mechanics around it in overwatch are flawed with cooldown rez, not mass rez as an ult.
Although I am fine with rez being removed since Mercy is uncontested in rez right now. She needs it gone or a competitor to lower its value for the community. Not really game. This is just me getting annoyed at how often I still hear/read how mass rez is broken. It’s not and never was, and rez isn’t the most “powerful ability in the game” so I’d rather the mechanic be dead and buried with at this point.
<~Although such a change would likely mean the game has turned in a manner i would just leave altogether~>
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Speed boost only effects alive team mates. Rez only effects dead team mates. There is a fundamental difference to being alive and dead. Mass Rez then is the ability to effect multiple dead people. It could be used to rez jist 1, or 5, depending on the situation.
The fact that the difference between alive and dead is so severe places Mass Rez is in it’s own category.
There is no comparison.
Mass Rez is vastly different from singular rez. It’s not a matter of power but of how the mechanic interacts with the game as a whole.
You got any examples of Mass Rez in other games?
for what purpose? The only comparison is power not use. Ana nade is nothing like widow grapple. Disc orb is not like hack. It’s about power. I think rez is strong, but not as powerful as you make it out to be. and the design of rez in overwatch makes it fine for mass rez to be a thing.
I don’t care about other games. I care about this one. If I want it to be like other games, all supports would rez. I do not. I think symm and mercy should have rez and that would be fine.
Other games let me customize my hero. Other games let me be dark skinned. And others don’t.
That’s not my focus. Mine is how rez plays into this game and it’s power. Into this genre of game and its power and I gotta say : it ain’t that great:
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For what purpose is alive different than dead?
Is this an honest question? I don’t see why I’d need to explain the differences between a player being dead and alive in this game and how that effects things.
I have made no argument for the power of rez. In my opinion, Mass Rez is a trash ult. With instant cast, invuln, no LOS, it was still a trash ult. What of it?
How Mass Rez interacted with this game was problematic. Thus why it was moved from the 1:1-5 mechanic to the 1:1 mechanic we have now. That is 1 button press = 1 person being rezzed. Not 1 button press = 1-5 being rezzed. 1:1-5 mechanic has numerous problematic interactions with this game from Bronze to Pro.
I have no reason to think Mass Rez should be in this game. I ask you for examples of Mass Rez in other games in hopes of having an example of it working successfully. I think we can both agree there is no such example.
Therefore… No reason for Mass Rez.
I think we can agree on this.
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i disagree. I dont think any game needs anything because it’s a game.
Between mass rez and cooldown rez, mass rez is the better game design. Ult rez flat, is better game design.
I think mass rez worked fine in Overwatch. I think the issue came from making it too strong with invulnerability instead of like, a disc priest barrier or a fortify ability. That’s not an issue of mechanics, thats on the game reward system. That’s a dev issue, not a kit issue. I was fine with Mercy being strong in lower tiers and struggling in higher tiers. I just think she needed an extra ability to compete in terms of her burst output being limited to her ult so her consistency needed to be more in her own control with minor suitability
i disagree, This is just as fine as any dps using their ult to kill 1-6 enemies.
Mass Rez was fine. It was compensation for mercys lack of midfight. makes sense imo
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Why? From a game design perspective, what reason is Mass Rez better than single rez?
In coordinated settings Mass Rez was still weak with invuln and all that. Was used to rez Pharah. Where’s this too strong stuff coming from? Gold tier?
Those are completely different. Not even comparable.
Why was Mass Rez good? From a game design perspective. Please explain. All you’ve said is in your opinion it’s good, you have given no reason.
then you didn’t read the essay I wrote detailing exactly what you’ve asked and linked in a reply.
you’re right. Death is more powerful than rez.
too strong for exploits. Again… in my essay I detail this. Similarly, While my essay explains what I think,
you have not said what about it is bad other than
in what way?
I don’t like when people assign me homework. When someone links me to another thread, chances are I won’t read it.
Why you bringing up this powerful stuff again? I haven’t said one is more powerful than another, or said much about Rez’s power at all. Rez just interacts with the game in a fundamentally different way than literally everything else in the game. That’s just fact. Rez is the only thing that can affect a dead player.
The 1:1-5 mechanic allows for things like incentivizing allowing a team mate to die. To neglect healing, or utilizing all of your kit in order to prevent your own or a team mates death, and simply allow it so you can get more people in the same area at the same time. More return.
Thus the hide and rez, thus the stuff about it being “broken gameplay” in a sense. Gameplay that was felt didn’t belong in this game. Was contradictory to the game, and in a sense the hero itself.
Furthermore, in coordinated settings, Mass Rez was regulated to being used to bring up Pharah. There was no big bait and switch sort of big brain mass rez plays in coordinated settings, as it relies on a lack of coordination, and your team mates being dead.
Nothing else interacts with the game and other players in a similar way. Rez is completely unique, and Mass Rez is a step further due to the 1-5 variable. Thus why Rez is now 1:1.
It makes sense.
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then dont complain when I don’t respond. I already wrote out my ideas in a manner that was organized (at least as much as i was willing to on my phone at work). I already took the time to share this idea I have, I shared it to you, and you choose to ignore it. That’s not on me.
So? unique means you consider that when working around it. Similarly, mobility acts differently for different heroes.
TO incentivize it, there needs to be a base reason to do it. There is no such encouragement for mercy. There was none. The only times I can think of a support being incentivized to do anything is for symm as a support (im not going to go into that) and ana
Ana had 80 dps and 75 hps. That imo gave ana “incentive” to dps over heal. Her dps output is higher than healing. It makes sense. nothing inherently says a six man high noon is always better than 3. Nothing inherently says a five man rez was always better than 3.
And in most cases, waiting for the max is bad unless you don’t want to climb out of silver. No one forces or tells players how to play. The game doesn’t say mercy will heal more for each rez. Or for each dps to wait for zarya grav to ult at the same time.
hide and rez isn’t a mechanic problem. it’s a reward problem imo But you will likely not read it so idk why I bother.
rez works more consistently and has less negative outcomes. That means they made rez work better inherently than mass rez ever did. And I think that was a mistake for a unique ability like rez. I think it is more powerful on cooldown and 1:1 than mass rez and therefore has design flaws.
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