Why I Have Yet to Not Despise Mercy's Current State


#9272

I was responding to your statement “You may have experienced people doing this”

I emphasize the word “may”

You said what you said, and as such, I replied to your statement

…and yet - though you claim I am a “broken record” - it is true.

I saw and experienced it happening, many many many times

Factually, I admitted to being wrong - clearly wrong - in a post just an hour or so ago

I believe the evidence I witnessed with my own eyes and ears

I am told x cant ever happen and yet I saw x happen.

I dont believe that the rules of these forums requires one to reply to or address everything another poster wrote

If you are saying that the devs simply listened to the Pros and then made the changes without looking into the matter for themselves - no, with apologies, I dont believe that.


#9273

No, but if you pick half a statement and ignore the rest to make it suit your narrative, that is being purposefully manipulative.

If I leave out part of your sentence above:

That changes everything you just said, which is what you conveniently do to everything someone else writes to you, so you can respond with the same thing you always do and not actually create proper dialogue between you and the other individual and it results in your manipulating their end of the conversation so you can tell them “No, you are wrong” whilst not actually addressing the points they made against you so you don’t have to bring any of your own.

No, I am stating that.
I am saying that the dev’s are completely unreliable at this stage in the game’s life and it was only on the right track back at the beginning of the game. The path they have taken is due to their eagerness and bias towards and esport that is drastically losing traction because of their failures that they keep continuing to try and balance toward.


#9274

Factually, I reply to what I wish to reply to, same as any other poster, I’d guess.

I do not have a narrative, and I do not believe I have been manipulative, aside from the fact that all communication is intrinsically manipulative to an extent

To the best of my knowledge, I have never changed the meaning of any snippet of text I have quoted

That to me is the difference between your example above, where the meaning was changed to its opposite

I do not believe I have told anyone they are wrong

Instead, I have stated either facts or my opinion in response to what someone has stated.

I was editing/correcting my post while you were already replying

Allow me to restate: taking it as assumed for the sake of argument that the complaints did come from the pro players (and I do not believe that either), I do not believe that the devs simply took the pro’s word for it and made the change to remove mass rez. I find it more believable gven this scenario that’d they’d have gone and confirmed this behavior for themselves. In either scenario, it was the devs who made the final call, and they did state in their video with the release that made this change that they had observed this disturbing behavior for themselves


#9275

I do not personally find my experience to be irrelevant

I consider mass rez to be the very worst thing that could be added (re-added?) to Mercy’s design due to my experience with this ult


#9276

Leaving out important context is manipulative to a narrative you wish to fulfill.
The “Mercy is fine” narrative that exists simply because you like her.

I too have a narrative that I wish people to understand, but I am not going to pick one portion of their sentence that can make my words true while ignoring that they said other things that make my words less true. I acknowledge the whole sentence and reference the part I disagree with but also explain why I think what they said is untrue or agree with the part that is of value and also explain how I see that section. There is a difference to what you have been doing to fulfill your narrative and what others here have been doing.

I never changed anything you wrote either, I simply highlighted a section that can allow me to make whatever argument I wish to make and left out the part that disprove what I was saying. Nothing changed, I simply left out a part so it made you look like you were saying something else and I could make the point I was making.
Which is what you do.

Your “I respectfully disagree” that you don’t even explain you position is just your way of dodging people’s questions so you can come off correct.

You have never said:

“I respectfully disagree because of A reason. This reason is because I believe the following occurs _______________”

Instead we get “I respectfully disagree because this is good and I like it.”
That’s not an argument, that is your preference and you won’t convince anyone like that and if you aren’t here to convince anyone that this Mercy is good, then why are you here? You are simply wasting people’s time if you come here to try and shut down arguments with “I like this”, that doesn’t explain what makes it balanced, fair, good, strong, etc. especially when there have been plenty of reasons, statistics, evidence, analysis, etc showing the complete opposite.

Streams from pro players were calling for her head simply because people had found a way to exploit the ladder and it was sabotaging other players in the process. SR Exploit promoting bad behaviour.

Streams from pro players have spent tons of time calling her skill-less and brain dead, when she was so far from it and used the excuse of hiding because they can’t open their eyes.

People don’t want to think strategy and in a game like Overwatch, that should not be supported by the devs and it is for the sake of having flashy pro play so they can make esports money. Unfortunately, the business tactic doesn’t work because if the community is disappointed in the game, there is less of a community interested in watching the game.


#9277

Of course you don’t find it that way, but the statistics show that your experience is irrelevant in the grand scheme of the game.

The statistics show that your experience is a very uncommon one.
It shows that your experience is not really one that should be taken into consideration because it does not effect the majority of the playerbase.

In the proposed original rework on this post, there is a method that would actually greater DECREASE this effect that you speak off that statistically happens very rarely, so why you should be against it, I have no clue.


#9278

Yeah but you’ve already said before that you play on console so your experiences don’t really apply to PC overwatch in the slightest.


#9279

I don’t think that’s a major factor tbh. Symm and torb were nerfed in their turrets on console only but they were never largely picked. I think there are differences but not too the degree people think there is.


#9280

True, but there are still much larger advantages that characters with limited aim mechanics have on a console over people on PC.

Aiming with a mouse is simply more precise at most levels of play and thus you are more likely to encounter more difficult players sooner that use aiming characters on PC compared to console.

Just because even on console, people try to prioritize aim because they link it to skill, doesn’t mean those characters didn’t have particular advantages even if they were underplayed.

Mercy is likely a huge advantage on console because using sticks to aim while a Mercy who doesn’t have to aim as much is flying about will be much harder to aim up, especially if you have to lower sensitive to aim more precisely, you can only turn so fast because you are limited to your maximum turn speed.

A mouse can have a low DPI/Sensitivity and still turn much quicker due to arm movements.


#9281

Yes. They are tunnel visioned in a lot of ways. I’m confident I could have a logical discussion with them, as they acknowledge logic. Appealing to the generalisms and abstracts, context and subtext, etc, would not be a part of me discussing a subject with them. I recognize itd lead no where.

Because of fundamental design issues regarding Mass Rez. There is a reason all comparable forms of Rez in other games are single target.


#9282

I disagree. I think it’s single target in other games because it’s a mechanic spread out. Mercy is the only person in overwatch with this mechanic


#9283

So why is there no other game, be it MOBA or FPS that has a Mass Rez mechanic? Where people who have been killed are brought back en masse?

The only example I’ve been made aware of is from Dirty Bomb and it was hellsqueen that brought that to my attention. It however has a knocked system, where if a person is the confirmed after being knocked, they are not effected by the rez. That makes it quite different.


#9284

I’m saying mass Rez is a bit more powerful as a mechanic because only one hero has it. Rez isn’t as strong as we make it out to be nor mass rez. It’s just stronger in overwatch because no one other than Mercy can do it. This is seen also with Lucio where his monopoly of speed makes it that much better.
Speed is good. Rez is good. But why can Lucio give so much speed? Why can mercy and was mercy able to rez so Much? Because no one else can.


#9285

Huh?

What does multiple heroes having a rez mechanic have to do with Mass Rez as a mechanic? Mercy has single target rez now. So let’s give Lucio, Zen, and Ana and whoever single rez too. Cool. What does that have to do with Mass Rez?

Most Rez mechanics require a certain class, or certain kit, to be taken in order to perform it. Not legit everyone can do it.

I really have no idea what you’re trying to argue. Just because Mercy is the only one that can rez that means she should have Mass Rez? No man.


#9286

mass rez as a function was never broken because rez itself isn’t “that” powerful. Mercy’s monopolization makes it restricted so that advantage is that much more to your team’s benefit.
The power comes from how limited it is.
Again, let’s look at lucio and how he has been in more Metas than any other hero in the game. The meta centered around Lucio so often? Why? Because of his monopolization of speed. Lucio is more powerful because of his unique mechanic. Similarly, Ana is more powerful because of her unique monopolization to cut off healing.
Let’s look at mercy and rez. some other games restrict it to class, yes. But it isn’t usually a restriction on how many a team can have that can rez. Nor how many times that person CAN rez. OR the whole team can rez and it’s just longer to do. The rez mechanic isn’t so valuable there because it’s available in many forms.
I’m not saying Mercy needs Mass rez. I’m saying there is no fundamental design flaws to it. Mass Rez isn’t that powerful because Rez isn’t that powerful. Design mechanics around it in overwatch are flawed with cooldown rez, not mass rez as an ult.

Although I am fine with rez being removed since Mercy is uncontested in rez right now. She needs it gone or a competitor to lower its value for the community. Not really game. This is just me getting annoyed at how often I still hear/read how mass rez is broken. It’s not and never was, and rez isn’t the most “powerful ability in the game” so I’d rather the mechanic be dead and buried with at this point.
<~Although such a change would likely mean the game has turned in a manner i would just leave altogether~>


#9287

Speed boost only effects alive team mates. Rez only effects dead team mates. There is a fundamental difference to being alive and dead. Mass Rez then is the ability to effect multiple dead people. It could be used to rez jist 1, or 5, depending on the situation.

The fact that the difference between alive and dead is so severe places Mass Rez is in it’s own category.

There is no comparison.

Mass Rez is vastly different from singular rez. It’s not a matter of power but of how the mechanic interacts with the game as a whole.

You got any examples of Mass Rez in other games?


#9288

for what purpose? The only comparison is power not use. Ana nade is nothing like widow grapple. Disc orb is not like hack. It’s about power. I think rez is strong, but not as powerful as you make it out to be. and the design of rez in overwatch makes it fine for mass rez to be a thing.
I don’t care about other games. I care about this one. If I want it to be like other games, all supports would rez. I do not. I think symm and mercy should have rez and that would be fine.
Other games let me customize my hero. Other games let me be dark skinned. And others don’t.
That’s not my focus. Mine is how rez plays into this game and it’s power. Into this genre of game and its power and I gotta say : it ain’t that great:


#9289

For what purpose is alive different than dead?

Is this an honest question? I don’t see why I’d need to explain the differences between a player being dead and alive in this game and how that effects things.

I have made no argument for the power of rez. In my opinion, Mass Rez is a trash ult. With instant cast, invuln, no LOS, it was still a trash ult. What of it?

How Mass Rez interacted with this game was problematic. Thus why it was moved from the 1:1-5 mechanic to the 1:1 mechanic we have now. That is 1 button press = 1 person being rezzed. Not 1 button press = 1-5 being rezzed. 1:1-5 mechanic has numerous problematic interactions with this game from Bronze to Pro.

I have no reason to think Mass Rez should be in this game. I ask you for examples of Mass Rez in other games in hopes of having an example of it working successfully. I think we can both agree there is no such example.

Therefore… No reason for Mass Rez.

I think we can agree on this.


#9290

i disagree. I dont think any game needs anything because it’s a game.
Between mass rez and cooldown rez, mass rez is the better game design. Ult rez flat, is better game design.
I think mass rez worked fine in Overwatch. I think the issue came from making it too strong with invulnerability instead of like, a disc priest barrier or a fortify ability. That’s not an issue of mechanics, thats on the game reward system. That’s a dev issue, not a kit issue. I was fine with Mercy being strong in lower tiers and struggling in higher tiers. I just think she needed an extra ability to compete in terms of her burst output being limited to her ult so her consistency needed to be more in her own control with minor suitability

i disagree, This is just as fine as any dps using their ult to kill 1-6 enemies.
Mass Rez was fine. It was compensation for mercys lack of midfight. makes sense imo


#9291

Why? From a game design perspective, what reason is Mass Rez better than single rez?

In coordinated settings Mass Rez was still weak with invuln and all that. Was used to rez Pharah. Where’s this too strong stuff coming from? Gold tier?

Those are completely different. Not even comparable.

Why was Mass Rez good? From a game design perspective. Please explain. All you’ve said is in your opinion it’s good, you have given no reason.