Hiding is hiding.
It is still stopping doing something in order for greater gain later down the track.
You provide an ult where Mercy doesn’t have to wait for her team to die, well that’s great let’s do that then because her healing in any form cannot support her team reliably without a last line of defense that she has to be cautious to use.
Her old design had her give up much independence and offensive capability in order to benefit her team in the form of team reliant mobility and single target heals that only just pushed her into a bracket of main healer. Her discretion is used to come up with the best ways to juggle the heals to keep her team standing until she could no longer hold them. Which is why she had the weaker saving ult, it was very sketchy, hard to pull off successfully if you tried to get the maximum number, had a lot of thought to it but it was her last resort that gave her AOE and Burst impact, which are what other supports can have access to regularly. A saving ult or even just the charges of pulse healing I mentioned earlier dropping the rez (maybe it overheals instead if she uses it before the fight?) so that it can be used similarly as a tempo support ult like Moira’s or Ana’s.
People hate people coming back in general. As someone who has been on the opposite ends of mass rez after team wipes with D.va bombs because I was a D.va main before they ruined her, I never found that Mass Rez bothered me and often the time it took for the team to come back resulted in my team pushing aggressively before they could position themselves again which means to me my ult still had impact and mass rez did nothing, it ruined their pacing of the fight and them returning to the fight but them coordinating too slow meant my team could snowball in and wipe without any ultimates. It felt no better than any other saving ult, it felt just as easy to counter as any other saving ultimate.
In fact, I also had many rewipes from Mercy popping rez for a non-ult team wipe, where I threw my ult at the respawning team.
I may play Mercy now, but back then she was not my main and she was easily played around just fine, it just seems people did not look much beyond their initial impact to realise how easy it was to dismantle a team after they resurrected.
Yeah Mass Rez played out in a lot of different ways depending on the situation, the teams, etc.
I’d like Valk to just be numerically adjusted myself. Play around with it. I think it’s duration can be reduced and power shifted elsewhere in it. I’m fine with how E rez is tbh myself but some people have made it clear it rubs them the wrong way.
I don’t know how I feel about Mercy having a Zen or Lucio style ult. I like her ult being closer to Coalescence myself.
Welcome to understanding iteration numeration 101. Mercy has had 2 iterations. 1.x and 2.x. 1.x is every version before Valkyrie. 2.x is every iteration of Valkyrie. For being such a wonderful student, you get a biscuit.
But it isn’t close at all.
And never can be because Mercy’s base level power is too low comparatively and and increasing the numbers to match will still rub people the wrong way. Valkyrie is supposed to be like Coalescence but it never can be because of it’s design.
Moira may heal and damage all the time, but during ult it does it in a unique way to how she was doing it previously, provides her new risk for great value. Valk can never be that way because it is just her beams but you still control one and the rest does it on its own for you, it is just a free movement even though you have GA to make movement on your own, it is easier to escape than to actually worry about your positioning, it’s easier to hide and hold a button, it’s easier to shoot because there are more bullets, it’s rez but you can hover above the corpse even though you can make GA moves to do that already.
It’s everything you already can do, but made easier so that it doesn’t take anything to improve upon, except maybe aim but that is still less challenging for Valk.
If you like like Valkyrie, then you should like her base kit because it allows you more skill expression and you should be able to continue just fine in your life by having her base kit because her base kit is Valkyrie but it lets you do it skillfully in your own terms.
And as I said, Mercy’s base kit design means she needs something that has a Burst and AOE impact. It doesn’t have to be as strong as Zen or Lucio, but it needs to impact in a burst that has aoe effect, because ult is the only time she should be allowed to possess Burst And/Or AOE because she doesn’t have any other way to do so which is the cost of her reliable design.
I’ll add to this another point. If you buff valk, it could become aoe burst, but it would mess now with transcendence (and would make her mandatory again), being even safer because you can disengage for free with it, you are taking no risks at all during valk, whereas Zen can be stopped by other ways than just Ana’s nade because if he is not with his team, his ult will be rendered to useless, unlike Mercy who can be behind a cloud and still work at full potential. The only way valk could work as a burst without messing with other characters is making an entire overhaul of it, and even in that case, I’d rather having other ult. By now, rez is the only true Mercy’s burst (very watered anyway and single). I’m not saying I want mass rez as it was or whatever, I’m simply pointing out that that ability is a burst ability. However, as her E is both unfun to use and so busted that it has forced everything else to be nerfed as compensation (excepting GA, and pistol, which was nerfed solely for balance reasons), so it should be changed, if possible to a form that was both balanced and at very least comfortable to use, not this quicksands simulator.
The main problem I see with valk is that it has great problems by design, and balance can’t fix that. It’s unengaging by nature, unless you go battle Mercy (the most enjoyable valk’s feature, it seems according to what people usually says). It’s redundant by nature because you are doing the same things as your normal kit but easier/extended (the only ult that works in a similar way to this would be tactical visor, aka aimbot). It’s not original because it messes with so many other heroes; valk could be perfectly defined as some Pharah’s flight + Lucio’s amp it up + weaker but safer Orisa’s drums. Finally, we have the spam fest being still a thing. Tbh, I don’t see valk working, it wasn’t needed and this huge revert back to alpha, beta and seasons 2-3 was never necessary, because it has only brought back old problems that were fixed before for good. Yes, Mercy needed some changes, but forward, not backward.
Tell that to the rest of the console community who scream for Pharmercy nerfs compared to the much lower complaints of the PC community about the same pairing.
People in higher ranks on PC actually have been saying that Pharah is very weak in higher ranks due to hitscan. Mercy doesn’t help her too much either since they can easily shoot her down as well.
Depends from map though: if you can hover behind corner of the building, it’s not very different from being on the ground, with added benefit of less annoyance from Tracer, Genji and some other heroes without very high jumps or long range.
This is true. Though, the positioning of Pharahs in Masters is uh… A bit worse than you would expect. At least from my experience. I don’t trust them anymore.
the irony is that people complain that mercy players cant aim and doesn’t need skill to play, but support hero skills rely on surviving and not aiming (the only aim heal mechanic in the game is ana).
I can remember quite a few times when you answered to a criticism by restating the supposed fact, or by saying something among the lines of “I believe what I said was correct”. “It is a fact because I believe it to be a fact”
If you lead the horse to water, and the horse doesn’t want to drink even though it has not drunk since a fair amount of time, will you question the sanity of the water and try to find another spot, or simply let the horse die ?
I do not find this answer to be related to the part of my post that you quoted, as my point was more about how an anecdotal experience that matches a statement does not make this statement valid or factual.
Here is the quote
Nonetheless, I’d like to address it.
“To the best of my knowledge, my statements have been either purely facts…”
And that is a problem, if I may give my opinion on it.
Your will to be so factual hinders and disturbs the dialogue by derailing it towards an uninteresting, unrelated and unnecessary argument on semantics.
I’ve said numerous times that current rez makes Mercy immobile.
I perfectly know that this is factually false. However, the loss in movement speed is so harsh that it might as well be true, there would be little to no difference in my opinion. As such, I accept to be factually wrong by exagerating a bit in order to portray better my passionate disdain for this ability.
“…or have factually lined up with my experience”
Here is a statement from you in this thread.
Mass rez incentivized a healer to not heal her team
And there is the answer you brought up to support the previous claim.
Factually, I saw Mercys choosing to withhold healing happen, many times
Acording to these quotes “mass rez incentivized a healer to not heal her team [because] factually, I saw Mercys choosing to withhold healing happen, many times”
The above assertions are in correlation with one another. However, “I saw it happen” is an anecdotal claim and does not warrant the former assertion to be true.
I’ll say it again:
I agree with that, and that’s fine.
However participating in the conversation by trying to answer every question one asks you will give more credit to your arguments.
For example, if I make a thread to say “I don’t like current Mercy; I think we should go back to mass rez Mercy” but also never answer when someone asks me why I don’t enjoy current Mercy, most people will probably stop taking me seriously and may even start labelling me as a troll and flag me.
I’m not saying you are in a similar situation, or that you must answer each and every question one ever asks, but that further explainations of your reasoning are welcome and will help other people understanding your point of view by opening the dialogue.
I personally highely recommend giving again links and/or explainations to someone who is asking for them. In my oponion, doing so shows a will to cooperate.
So let me get this straight:
“Mass rez was unhealthy because I saw bad people using the ability in an unintended way”
Which is not only an anecdotal claim (“I saw it happen”), but also completely absurd. Were you expecting anything else from low level players ?
I would be glad to be proved wrong in your following posts.
Allow me to jump into that discussion with an analogy.
Someone is playing heads or tails and after a fair amount of tries, they notice that an overwhelming amount of coins landed on tails.
Surprised by this outcome, they conclude that the coin was rigged.
Is this reaction valid ? I’ll let you build your opinion before explaining.
As you should know, the odds of the coin landing on tails are of a half (0.5, or 50% if you prefer) for each toss. Statistically, after a fair amount of tries, the odds are that half of the coins will land on tails, and the other half will land on heads.
But technically, if this experiment is reproduced by hundreds of people, it is not impossible that a few of them have witnessed that a majority (or even all) of the coins land on either of the sides without the coin being rigged.
In this analogy, the coin represents the use of mass rez, the statistics are the ones Titanium explained some posts ago, the hundreds of heads and tails players are the Overwatch community, and the initial player is you: Megadodo.
To sumarise, “something that does not exist in another game should not exist in this game”.
I strongly question the validity of this reasoning.
I would even go so far as saying that this reasoning can hardly be taken as “reasoning”, or even be refered as such, since there is nothing logic in it.
It not only defeats the purpose of making an original, unique game, but also does not make sense at all to begin with.
Why should the way other games are designed impact how Overwatch should be designed ? Why should the presence or absence of an ability in those games dictate the presence or absence of similar abilities in Overwatch ?
And that is exactly why I think it has a place in this game.
Is this an out of season April’s fool joke ?
Virtually leaving the battlefield for 1.75s in Overwatch is not fair. It is not a good design choice.
Switching from damage boost to healing and vice-versa does not take 1.75s of your hero being useless and slowed for 75%.
No other hero has to commit for 1.75s while slowed for 75% to perform any ability.
Why is that suddenly fair for Mercy ?
You seem to be focusing a lot on the hide and rez aspect, and keep on implying that it was a design problem while in reality it was a reward problem as N7 already explained. Why is this so difficult ?
I am aware of complaints from players on all devices, not just console.
I am aware the blizzard has at times balanced certain specific items differently on console than on pc. I don’t believe there is good justification to do so for the vast majority of cases
Poor summary, friendo. We experienced problematic elements of Mass Rez in this game. To the point it was removed. We’re now considering going back on that, and reinstating it in the game. Thus why I was curious of other examples of Mass Rez being used successfully. Thus far, I have none.
This also ties into the common argument for Mass Rez that basically says “well Rez exists in other games.” Yes, it does. Not Mass Rez though. Is that clear now?
It doesn’t dictate thee presence or absence in Overwatch. The time period where we had Mass Rez and it was removed is what dictated the absence of it in Overwatch. My asking for examples of Mass Rez in other games again goes toward trying to find options where it worked.
Cool, I guess. That’s a nice opinion. Reasons? Just for unique points? Screw the gameplay elements?
It is, as I’m having to explain the obvious so often it seems.
Leaving the battlefield? Odd choice of words. Considering the 5m restriction and cast time on Rez, it seems you aren’t able to leave the battlefield. Compare that to what Mass Rez promoted in certain tiers.
Why does another hero have to have the same restrictions? Wouldn’t this tie into what you said earlier?
Change games to abilities and overwatch to Rez. Mind blown.
It is inherent to the 1:1-5. You are rewarded by bringing up potentially 5 people. Every version of 1:1-5 has that potential. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be 1:1-5. Again, obvious.
It’s closer to Coalescence than it is to Trans or Sound Barrier. That’s what I’m saying I prefer. Whereas Mass Rez was closer to Trans and Sound Barrier.
I see many people saying it’s the AoE element of Valk they don’t like. As for burst, sure, in a similar way to how Coalescence bursts imho.
![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=6" ":stuck_out_tongue:")