Why did Illari also get a nerf?

I think the pylon focuses the lowest hp in range.

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The very reason for this nerf is because she held off angles too well.

She has an enormous projectile size for a hitscan, a relatively quick fire rate and her infinite-lifetime Pylon.

It is impossible to kill her from range qithout a one-shot, as the Pylon qill negate any meaningful dmg. Additionally it’s very hard to close the distance to Illari in the first place, especially if she’s holding a high ground.

And if you do close in on her, she still has good dueling capabilities even up close.

Illari has been too potent of a duelist for a while now and with her recent rise in power, it’s only understandable that the most frustrating part of her kit takes the nerf.

It’s only understandable to you maybe, because the change is terrible and it kills the hero. Holding off angles was the only thing she was good at. Now she isn’t.

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She’s not going anywhere lmao.

She’s just gonna be slightly easier to kill, if she’s on her own, which is fine.

There should be at least some risk at holding an off angle by yourself… as a support nevertheless.

Not to mention she got three compensation buffs along with it.

She’ll be just fine.

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Because flex supports need to die.

Its no longer a role.

Support your team. That is your highest priority. It is not to rack up kill count.

Me. It was me. I am the person you are looking for.

Does this mean I can now tell everyone how great of a game designer I am and that my opinions are the literal truth? The devs did exactly what I, me, said. I am so cool.

Until you realize its been 5 minutes in the lobby and the enemy mercy has yet to die.

Sometimes you just gotta go Bap/Illari/Zen and start trying to click heads. Sustaining just won’t win you some games.

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You’re so close to the point…

Yes those supports can facilitate kills very well. That’s how they support.

But that’s also why they shouldn’t be able to solo duel and win vs dps while also being capable of healing.

Something has to be limited. For Illari it’s the self heal and (now) mid TTK and for zen it’s mobility and overall healing.

Bap doesn’t have these drawbacks hence he is widely known as op, EVEN if it’s hard to use all his value at once it’s still possible and widely considered problematic.

A dps-capable support cannot be too capable of solo dueling while supporting- it effectively turns the fight 5v6 in a certain sense, and it’s why bap/Illari/zen being strong INSTANTLY feel incredibly oppressive to the extreme.

To put this even more clearly- mercy and lifeweaver net ~55 hps and almost every support must swap to damaging when they want (or shoot an enemy instead of an ally)

Illari can simultaneously deal damage and heal 40 hps with pylon, and zen can heal 30 while damaging and applying discord for constant multi-value. Bap can self heal to full at extreme speed and immo. These hero’s are quite literally netting 2 hero’s worth of value at times. And using that value in duels at full force is oppressive in a team setting.

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It’s supposed to encourage players to stick with their team and not think of themselves as a dps

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Not Lucio. Or Brig. Or Moira (she can alternate her orbs with left/right click obvi).

Still. I hear what youre saying. Tanks in general would have a better time of it too if their supports were forced to focus on their team to get their best value, rather than three mentioned supports who really dont do that to get theirs.

Bap’s 1vs1 prowess has been unchecked for ages, I agree it has no place in this game. Illari and Zen have had their power level scaled back well enough imo, but Bap has remained mildy OP for quite literally all of OW2.

Perhaps Illari has never seemed oppressive to me cuz Bap’s presence makes her feel tame in comparison :laughing: You can shoot the turret, can’t stop Bap from pressing two buttons and bouncing away.

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I know we’re in agreement but just to touch a point-

Lucius duel potential is swayed majorly agressive or defensive depending on his song of choice and his self heal is scuffed in the first place so he can’t just sustain to win most of the time realistically

Brig is brig Lol 15 hps is nothing tbh and her burst combo is hardly lethal after the Hp increases, she also has among the most limited range in the game and can’t really take duels so much as defend herself desperately most of the time

Moira has hard capped dps potential. She has a fantastic survival rate in duels, but in 1v1 fuels she has the severe lower hand in actually confirming a kill outside the lowest of ranks. Also, damage + heal is her exact utility, it’s all she has, so she has to have it. If Moira could headshot with a very small crit box, even if they overall massively reduced her suck size, I assure everyone she’d have the games most problematic design by far.

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Illari will always be a bad pick cause she cannot really save her teammates like she has no suzu no nade no sleep no beat no rally no life grip no lamp all she does is apply more damage but then at the same time Zen has discord and damage plus he has trans but she will always be my fav support :>

You forgot to mention really weird ultimate… That doesn’t help you support teammates.

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Yep i am sorry it the ultimate where u have to think so much to even use. Does the kirko have suzu? Does the sigma have the succ move does orisa have the spinning top move is Dva in mech and have resource to use defence martix? Does reaper have going ghost? Does tracer have recall? Does moria have fade? Does genji have reflect?

Because they are deathly terrified of buffing some heroes while biased towards others.

The Orisa bias is sickening and every dev should be fired who buffs Orisa every patch.

Considering they also increased the healing for everyone other than Illari from 30 to 40, wouldn’t it be more akin to saying Junkrat would deal less damage to who was in his trap, but his teammates now did more damage to who was in the trap?

Not to say the change is good or bad. But saying that the change to Illari only hurts the character for no reason doesn’t feel quite right, as it also comes with a buff to healing her teammates. It went from 30 HPS for everyone to 20 HPS for just Illari but 40 HPS to her teammates. Again, I’m not commenting on whether or not it’s a good change, just pointing out that it’s not solely a nerf for no reason.

Shoulsn’t be your problem or job to do so.

Which this mentality is a double edged sword.

You decrease your team’s sustain, to go for the Mercy, when in reality your team may need you to match the Mercy’s, which isn’t hard to do btw.

So now DPS become less effective then they were before, tank has to hide a whole lot more, all for you as the support to attempt to kill a Mercy who probably has so much masterful movement that one support isn’t going to be enough if the 2 dps and 1 tank cou)dn’t do it.

So why in God’s name is your mentality, “I’ll do it myself” just to hinder 3 other teammates?

We then lose out on sustain we lose out on dps and protection, and nothing is fighting against the dps passive getting thrown our way.

Flex supports need to realize they cannot drop healing entirely. If an enemy support is doing well and healing a ton, that might be more of a sign to up your sustain game, not your dps game.

You don’t have the dps passive, you’re never as tanky as the tank, and the need to utilize your utility for the team is highly encourage at this point of the scenario if the other support is actually supporting that well.

You cannot go full support Rambo anymore. It doesn’t work.

And this is exactly why next time it’s Illari’s turn to be the meta support, they’ll buff her weapon in some way to make her being able to kill more attractive than her needing to heal. Healing is healing and utility is utility but killing beats all of them.

Unfortunately sometimes you gotta. If the enemy is running a Mercy who is rotating targets and providing a ton of healing, pressuring her out of position can sometimes be enough to swing a fight because she can’t just be wherever and get free value. Playing support isn’t about only healing or sustaining, sometimes it’s about killing the enemies yourself or at least pressuring people to stay positioned well or punishing them when they don’t.

I’ve swapped to Illari plenty of times to help my team counter a Pharah or Echo and it can be very successful because you’re helping your team be successful by supporting their damage with your own. Sometimes you do need that Mercy, but sometimes you need that Illari or Bap or Zen too. Support is about having the flexibility to give your team what it needs to be successful which is not always flat healing.

That’s why the category is “Support” and not “Healer.”

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The best shift in mindset. Reward the teamplay, sacrifice the solo play. Supports more than anyone make the whole game feel worse for all involved when they aren’t doing their primary duty of keeping a team up.

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Clearly it is not a nerf. Pylon was buffed to heal more. Also, despite self-healing reduction, this ability still beats what most other healers have, in my opinion. You don’t need to waste a cooldown on yourself, just be in range of your thing. It will still heal you pretty quickly.