I don’t have good enough memory for anyone specific, but I’d like anyone that focuses on balance while also keeping it fun. If this is in the same vein as the OWL card, then there’s plenty of room for crazy and out there changes, right?
Field is used in lower tiers. Brig isn’t used for peeling because she isn’t played.
It isn’t that supports don’t try to peel for each other, it is that BRIG isn’t heavily used for it because she isn’t played. because the rest of her kit doesn’t work there.
She can’t like, stop things with healing and with stuns, because the fights are more spread out.
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But is field used specifically for saving teammates at close range, on a regular basis, for midtiers and below?
Given like you said, how spread out they are.
brig has the most peeling capability, but isn’t the only support that can peel. you were claiming the no support player peels for others below diamond which is false.
No, they throw it on the other support. Fight is spread out, but that doesn’t mean they don’t use it on the other support. It is like Rez, most of the time, it is a tank or support which gets it.
Because, you NEED the other support. So either you try to keep the fight running until they get there, or you bring them back directly.
You can’t fight the flankers alone. Genji’s mid rank pick rates is high because he is effective there.
Alone you are going to lose.
I’m not interested in changing all peeling.
Just specifically “Unmatrixable Peeling on Heroes that aren’t OffTanks and aren’t Ults”.
And assuming they add that Tank knockback passive, could even ignore the knockback aspects.
Pretty much only,
Brig
ImmoField
Accretion
Mei
Heck, could even get more specific than that, and not directly change those abilities at all.
But make them ineffective when matrix is used
Then we are really reaching a territory of nearly zero impact on Plat and below.
D’va has the highest pick rate in OWL of any hero.
For 2020 she had the second highest, because Sigma, I’m not sure she needs help to work for OWL, or that DM like powers are weak.
Do you really think “balancing the game around pickrates for 0.001% of the playerbase” is something I’d really care about?
Much less the idea that it’s possible to get them to not play strict meta through balancing, without destroying ranked play.
You seem to be pushing for dive in GM, so obviously yes.
You wouldn’t be trying to say Dive was the healthest meta, unless you were trying to push for a small small number of players.
You wouldn’t be ignoring how bad the changes would be in the rest of the ladder if you didn’t.
basically unstoppable dive tanks. 
ah yes it’s definitely going to be fun having a big bulky tank flying at you while you legit can’t do much about while they kill you or at bare minimal guaranteed to take your position…
like have you considered that that’d lead to perma dive because it reaches a point where there’s no point to or simply no off tank that can reasonably stop dive tanks? 
I’m pushing Dive in GM, not for GM’s sake.
But because I want a high variety of Rein comps, Sigma comps, Orisa comps, and Winston comps in Plat and below.
It’s a lost cause to try to convince GM to play more than 7-10 heroes at a time once they have “solved” the meta for a patch.
They need the equivalent of a Ban system.
Then just buff / nerf them until you get that. You don’t need to try to make D’va the one true tank to manage that.
You just select Plat as your target and balance for that.
Deciding that you don’t care about GM is a thing you can do. You don’t try to push a particular play style there, and just trash the rest of the ranks to do so.
If you want to ignore GM, then ignore GM. But you will get double shield in GM, and that is ok, if you are going to ignore your 0.1% playerbase.
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Come on dude, if it was that easy, I wouldn’t have been struggling with this issue for 1.5 years.
They can’t buff Orisa and Sigma barrier.
Or nerf Rein barrier down to their level.
Without making it so that 2x barriers is better than 1x barriers.
Because the 2x barriers would have a raw advantage in raw barrier hp, barrier breaking, and refresh rates.
The only way they get around that is by giving it a close range vulnerability.
And it’s gotta be Dive, because Sigma/Rein deathball is also a high durability comp.
Right, in high ranks, but, you seem to be trying to give high ranks dive and still have the game not wrecked by it in the mid ranks.
You can’t make the supports dive targets without making them garbage. Because that is how you get dive.
If they are good at self peel then you don’t get dive, because they can self peel. If you make it so they can’t self peel nearly enough, then you have just made them garbage so you can have dive.
The issue is, you want a meta which can’t be made healthy, because the game has to be in an unhealthy state for it to become meta.
You need that defense is pointless, and that the only worth while tactic is throw everything at the enemy right away. Because that is dive. A total failure for defense to be able to work. Hell it has to be so garbage that you don’t even need to worry about the damage on the way there, or you end up with deathball.
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So buff offtanks, or like RobotWizard was referencing, use less divable supports.
And besides which even if it is “PermaDive”, this game has been alternating mostly between some form of high durability bunker or high durability deathball for 3 years.
So if they leave it at Dive until OW2 launch, no big deal.
But realistically, like I said, the equivalent of a Ban system is what high tier needs to mix up their variety.
You really think Brig and ImmoField getting countered by a coordinated Dive featuring DefenceMatrix would have a dramatic effect on midtiers and below?
Didn’t you just say how insignificant it would be because if how spread out people are.
Throw in a teamwork requirement with matrix and you cut that small number to a quarter of the interactions.
I think your taking off everything which can stop them would do so.
You are looking at having to basically rebuild Brigitte, Moira / Mei, etc.
I think you’re contradicting your own points from earlier in this discussion.
ah yes, buff off tanks so hard that 1 offtank can hold off like 4 divers, that sure as hell isn’t going to bring in balance issues at all let alone not even cause a dive meta in the first place
apparently rein zarya and zarya hog are “hgh durability bunker”. iNTeResTING! 
> leave it at dive until an undetermined date
…
ban systems don’t cover for inherently very skewed poor balancing.
No I’m not, if you have to strip out everything which Mei, Moira etc can use vs dive, then yeah, you will TOTALLY have an effect on lower ranks.
Making field not work would effect lower ranks. Making Lucio’s speed boost not work would effect lower ranks.
Also the message of “if you play support than you can get to a particular rank, and then all your games will be garabge games” is not great one you know?
We care enough about supports that you can play till mid / high, ranks, but then, hey, you may as well leave for another game… not good.
Grey is looking at Chro’s ban system which is built for a very different thing. I’m on the fence about it, but I would like to see it at least tried.
It would require MASSIVE rebalancing though, since it assumes no hero would need a hard counter to make them balanced.