Right, in high ranks, but, you seem to be trying to give high ranks dive and still have the game not wrecked by it in the mid ranks.
You can’t make the supports dive targets without making them garbage. Because that is how you get dive.
If they are good at self peel then you don’t get dive, because they can self peel. If you make it so they can’t self peel nearly enough, then you have just made them garbage so you can have dive.
The issue is, you want a meta which can’t be made healthy, because the game has to be in an unhealthy state for it to become meta.
You need that defense is pointless, and that the only worth while tactic is throw everything at the enemy right away. Because that is dive. A total failure for defense to be able to work. Hell it has to be so garbage that you don’t even need to worry about the damage on the way there, or you end up with deathball.
So buff offtanks, or like RobotWizard was referencing, use less divable supports.
And besides which even if it is “PermaDive”, this game has been alternating mostly between some form of high durability bunker or high durability deathball for 3 years.
So if they leave it at Dive until OW2 launch, no big deal.
But realistically, like I said, the equivalent of a Ban system is what high tier needs to mix up their variety.
You really think Brig and ImmoField getting countered by a coordinated Dive featuring DefenceMatrix would have a dramatic effect on midtiers and below?
Didn’t you just say how insignificant it would be because if how spread out people are.
Throw in a teamwork requirement with matrix and you cut that small number to a quarter of the interactions.
ah yes, buff off tanks so hard that 1 offtank can hold off like 4 divers, that sure as hell isn’t going to bring in balance issues at all let alone not even cause a dive meta in the first place
apparently rein zarya and zarya hog are “hgh durability bunker”. iNTeResTING!
> leave it at dive until an undetermined date
…
ban systems don’t cover for inherently very skewed poor balancing.
No I’m not, if you have to strip out everything which Mei, Moira etc can use vs dive, then yeah, you will TOTALLY have an effect on lower ranks.
Making field not work would effect lower ranks. Making Lucio’s speed boost not work would effect lower ranks.
Also the message of “if you play support than you can get to a particular rank, and then all your games will be garabge games” is not great one you know?
We care enough about supports that you can play till mid / high, ranks, but then, hey, you may as well leave for another game… not good.
Grey is looking at Chro’s ban system which is built for a very different thing. I’m on the fence about it, but I would like to see it at least tried.
It would require MASSIVE rebalancing though, since it assumes no hero would need a hard counter to make them balanced.
I don’t think I would put anyone here in charge of balancing Overwatch. For many reasons I won’t go into here because I could talk about varying approaches to balance that made it here and why it wouldn’t be a good idea
doesn’t matter. if balance is so poor that there’s a very apparent and skewed hierarchy of heroes to pick them, any sort of ban system isn’t going to fix that because it’s only going to remove a step or 2 from the hierarchy.
didn’t end up banning widow or whoever sniper in havana? well whoever has the better sniper wins basically. you did ban them? pick from the remaining ranged hitscans and you get a similar effect.
I’m really mostly just looking at Mei, Brig, ImmoField and Accretion.
I.e. Brig is barely used and players are too split up to matter
Mei is bastion tier and barely exists outside of GM
ImmoField getting shut off by Matrix would be very rare, and Bap is so close to a DPS that if you compensate it, it would do next to nothing to his pickrate
Accretion, Sigma barely gets used at lower ELOs and his pickrate and teammate protection would go up considerably with a 1200-1500hp style barrier
Throw in how Winston and D.va are barely used at any ELO
Hammond is too technical for Plat and below players to use well in the first place, much less have coordinated followup. And none of those abilities would matter much anyways besides Brig stun, which is barely used anyways.
The strength of the barriers is irrelevant if you ignore the barriers and attack at close range.
I thought that was obvious.
Sure I do 900 barrier on an 8sec cooldown, maybe weaker fortify, possibly throw in a gallop mechanic.
More like removing her from the possibility of bodyguarding for DoubleBarrier or bulking up Deathball to a tripletank equivalent, frees up tons of Mei buffs until she’s on par with other offtanks. Eventually.
Sounds about right. That’s what a Mei wall does.
Tbh once they de-escalate anti-Dive Hammond may need a nerf. But the increased Mei usage from "she’s almost a DPS " players would mostly keep him in check for midtiers.
Given he can reposition the barrier for that close fight it isn’t.
Right, but you don’t want the 2 comps she will provide. She can’t play in dive, and she counters it, since you want dive, it means you would be forced to keep her garbage regardless of the role she was in.
So, basically, have Mei as a mid tier highly picked main tank?
People are going to cry, but I wouldn’t be one of them obviously.
