What really was wrong with mass Resurrect?

[HintOfMalice-2431]

Which has the same end result as Transcendence and Sound Barrier…

Except for the fact that Lucio can be stunned out of his Ult, or LoS can be broken. Zen can be moved from his team to prevent him healing, his team can be anti naded or in some cases you can burst through it.

But, yeah, except for all of those, they’re exactly the same.

A deficit of two ultimates isn’t a bad tradeoff when the return for said expense was a teamwipe.

Except your options are deficit of 2 Ults for nothing, since Mercy rezzes, or deficit of 3-4 Ults and team wipe. Playing against Rez is like playing an infinite game of chess when you’re always in Check after every turn.

Depends, what ultimates did you use?

Averages factor in games across all ranks, which feature hundreds of games that I ultimately don’t care about. In my posts, I’m talking about my personal issue with Mass Rez.

And in my games a Mercy would pretty much always have her Ult back faster than the likes of Blade and Visor and Trans.

Whether Ana or Mercy charged first was a coin toss, honestly. And yeah, Pharah, Tracer and Sombra could charge considerably faster than Mercy if they played their cards right.

[Arceus-2238]

Up to gold and even then, Ana is supposed to be bad in those ranks. Mercy definitely shouldn’t have the 2nd worse winrate amongst the supports in those ranks.

I mean you can stop a dragon blade, just like how you can stop any ult but you couldn’t stop mass rez

sucessfully pulled off
Besides, mass Resurrect was extremely easy to counter. It honestly just required decent ult economy. That’s why, before invulnerability, she was a troll pick. Her ultimate is basically useless in high tiers unless you always commit to tempo ressing.

Would it? Getting big ult value was the only way most mercy players were able to find value. Only some at the higher ranks were smart enough to use tempo rez at the right times.

That’s the thing though, hiding is making you lose value for your ultimate. Again, it was a bad strategy. No one is going to use a bad strategy if they don’t have a motive for it hence why I keep saying that if they fixed the SR system earlier, the strategy would’ve died on its own.

The problem is that if there is a mercy on the enemy team with ult, the game devolves into “mercy hunt”, most other things you do won’t really have any effect as it’s negated. Whether or not Mercy is hiding, she is going to be in a safe place. You have to close the distance without having any casualties of your own, somehow focus down a very mobile hero while the rest of the team is trying to kill you and if you succeed with killing her, then you have to make sure that you win the fight completely before respawns happen.

All I understood from this is, “Mercy is hard to kill so she shouldn’t have a powerful ult”…

A lot of things can be considered straight forward on paper, but in unorganized play, it’s very hard to do.

Should you really be saying that about good ult economy; one of mass Resurrects best counters?

2CP is relatively simple on paper as well, but it basically requires perfect engagements and ult usage to win which even the pros struggle with.

2CP is a whole another beast. Players there literally only ever use ultimates to stall points. Mercy isn’t the only one.

The way to “counter” Rez is to force it out first by getting kills, most likely with ult usage and then having follow up ults that can win you the fight again after Rez has been used.

Or just stagger deaths? I swear, it’s not that hard.

People with ult tracking will spread out if something is imminent regardless of if there is a Mercy, and the game should not have a mechanic by which it turns the game into an RNG.

If only I knew what an RNG is.

2CP says otherwise.

Ok? The place where most ultimates, not just Mercy’s, are used for stalling? Hey D’Va, hey Winston, hey Mei! Mercy’s ultimate is the only problematic one though for stalling objectives even though, Winston and Mei are better at stalling with their abilities lul.

You can’t just say that every rez is a tempo rez when it already means an early non-mass rez. Are you actually here to discuss rez or fight with everyone?

Any Resurrect used to keep up the tempo and momentum of a fight is called a tempo Res. There is no fixed number for tempo resses but if you want to be picky, I guess 5 doesn’t count. It’s only 1-4 that can count as a tempo res.

[Cynical-11100]

Mass res was fine at launch imo. The only time I really had a problem with it was when they added the invul to it so the mercy could live through it. When they did that they took away a lot of the counter play to it. Before that if I seen a mercy res then get out alive I was very impressed.

[Arceus-2238]

Don’t worry sis, you’re not alone. Invulnerability was so unneccessary. The solution to invulnerability is damage resistance.

[Physics-11473]

Maybe because having 3 team fights every team fight was a bit prolonged… And pointless.

[Rainmaker-2987]

How many times do we have to answer again and again and again, how many times are 5+ thread with the same “Revert mercy” vibe for YEARS do we have to see over and over?

Mass res encouraged hide and seek play and had NO COUNTERS.
Please please for the love of god and everything that is sacred NOTICE the bold letters and the CAPS for importance and not “screaming”.

Every ultimate in this game had a counter when you press Q, Mass Res (with the invul that mercy mains got after a brutal amount of complains like “Mass res is a suicide button” threads) didn’t.

You CANT have things with brutal impacts and easy to pull off like mass res and ZERO counters. Period.

[Arceus-2238]

I mean, if it were to come back, which you already know since you mentioned a revert, there is literally nothing stopping them from giving mass Resurrect a cast time. Also, yes, technically speaking there is no counter to mass Resurrect. You can only deal with the ultimate, similarly to Zen’s Ult. That being said, it is incredibly easy to negate and in exchange for having no counterplay, it has stuff like 2 seconds of being stationary. That already gives the enemy team a positioning advantage. To summarise, it wasn’t impossible to deal with. Otherwise, Mercy would’ve never been a troll pick, ever…

[Titanium-1686]

Except you used an ult to kill most of them the first time, meaning you don’t get much ult charge back.

Depends. What ultimate was used, and how much work did it do? Ultimates like Graviton Surge and Earthshatter only feed the team using them more ultimate charge.

[Titanium-1686]

You know that when mercy got a 3+ Revive they were rarely close enough to all get naded.

Going by that logic, you know that when Zenyatta was using Transcendence his teammates were rarely close enough to all get Bio-naded.

[Titanium-1686]

OK you guys need to stop quoting entire posts, I lost 50% battery on my phone scrolling through all that.

Oh, that wasn’t even half of the post.

[Rainmaker-2987]

I mean, if it were to come back, which you already know since you mentioned a revert, there is literally nothing stopping them from giving mass Resurrect a cast time

Are we theorycrafting?
Sure then remove invul and make a base cast of 1sec + 0.5 sec per additional ally resurrected and they have to be in LOS, nothing behind walls.
Then she can be interrupted and die, pushback etc but with good cover and 3 sec she could res 5, makes sense.

You can only deal with the ultimate, similarly to Zen’s Ult

No, not really.
Zen can be pushed back, blocked so he cant heal or get to his team, anti heal the allies. There’s counters.

That being said, it is incredibly easy to negate and in exchange for having no counterplay, it has stuff like 2 seconds of being stationary. That already gives the enemy team a positioning advantage. To summarise, it wasn’t impossible to deal with

Again, no, not really.
If you ress a Zen that has trans, then he insta trans and GG, battle won.
If 2 of your team mates died killing 3 of theirs, you res and there you go 5v3 etc.
The average potential of a 3-5 man res is HUGE and the top potential is INSANE, literally gamebreaking, specially when you take into account the “Zero Counterplay” rule.

Honestly theres too much hassle and it would be like a “rework + re tune” to bring back Mass res. Dont think its even on developer’s minds.

[GhostPepper-11725]

Rez in fps/moba style game = annoyingly bad mechanic, therefore…

Mass Rez in fps/moba style game = n x annoyingly bad mechanic…

The only people who really appear to have liked it for the most part were Mercy mains.

[Titanium-1686]

It is a nerf cause they didnt made it mass res on 30 seconds cooldown. If it was that powerful she has to be picked now too.

Mercy isn’t being picked right now because they had to gut other areas of Mercy’s kit to force Resurrect into an E ability.

You might notice how Mercy has a healing rate of 50 health/second.

[Titanium-1686]

Simple.

A team uses coordination to remove the enemy and take control of the point.

But one enemy hero hid away

Surely, if the team was that coordinated in the first fight while the Mercy was hiding, they would be coordinated enough to wipe that same team again when given the positioning and first-shot advantages?

Or perhaps they would have staggered deaths or practiced ultimate economy?

If the Mercy wasn’t hiding, perhaps they would have eliminated the Mercy though target prioritization?

You know, skills any team that actually has any coordination will exercise without breaking a sweat?

[WelshInvader-1994]

Or Mercy came back from spawn. Wipe team, hunt for the Mercy because she died first.

She sneaks in and yet another round of fighting. No thanks.

[Arceus-2238]

Are we theorycrafting?
Sure then remove invul and make a base cast of 1sec + 0.5 sec per additional ally resurrected and they have to be in LOS, nothing behind walls.
Then she can be interrupted and die, pushback etc but with good cover and 3 sec she could res 5, makes sense.

Remove invulnerability, 1 second cast time and LoS fixes. Yep.

No, not really.
Zen can be pushed back, blocked so he cant heal or get to his team, anti heal the allies. There’s counters

In the sense that you can’t stop either ult from happening since both don’t have a cast time.

Again, no, not really.
If you ress a Zen that has trans, then he insta trans and GG, battle won.

The enemy team uses ultimates after trans ran out and counter enemy Zen’s trans with their own.

If 2 of your team mates died killing 3 of theirs, you res and there you go 5v3 etc.
The average potential of a 3-5 man res is HUGE and the top potential is INSANE , literally gamebreaking, specially when you take into account the “Zero Counterplay” rule.

• I mean, y’all keep giving scenarios like this but apparently no one is competent enough to kill the Mercy.

• this is false. The average amount of resses back then was 6.

Honestly theres too much hassle and it would be like a “rework + re tune” to bring back Mass res. Dont think its even on developer’s minds.

I mean, it is less troublesome than making a whole new ultimate for Mercy .

Rez in fps/moba style game = annoyingly bad mechanic, therefore…

Mass Rez in fps/moba style game = n x annoyingly bad mechanic…

The only people who really appear to have liked it for the most part were Mercy mains.

Last I checked, there weren’t any specific rules on what abilities should be allowed in a FPS/MOBA hybrid. Let Overwatch be unique.

Or Mercy came back from spawn. Wipe team, hunt for the Mercy because she died first.

She sneaks in and yet another round of fighting. No thanks.

Staggering deaths is the answer you need.

[WelshInvader-1994]

Staggering deaths is the answer you need.

Which is what leads to games with huge over times. It has to be simultaneous, not staggered.

[Rainmaker-2987]

In the sense that you can’t stop either ult from happening since both don’t have a cast time.

There are many ults you cant stop from happening but you can counter its effects. You cant “un-res” people nor “consume corpse” to prevent them from being res so yeah, bad comparison.
Dont keep the game between Mass ress vs Trans because you are going to lose pal.

The enemy team uses ultimates after trans ran out and counter enemy Zen’s trans with their own.

You just completely missed the point.

I mean, y’all keep giving scenarios like this but apparently no one is competent enough to kill the Mercy.

Killing the mercy doesnt counter Mass Res, it just delays it. Its universal, it happens to every character in the game so it doesnt count.
You cant argue in favor of not nerfing X ultimate by saying “Apparently no one is competent enough to kill X before uses ults”. Its pointless.

this is false. The average amount of resses back then was 6.

What
You are part of a team, the max res is 5 mate, the sixth player is you.
Also the ultimate was charged ULTRAFAST so every 1.5 teamfight, you had a mass ress ready. It was absurd, 100% mercy pickrate.

mean, it is less troublesome than making a whole new ultimate for Mercy .

Not really, Valk is a logical ultimate with counters, engaging. Mass ress was not and didnt have any counters. It was either remove the invul and hear the cries of Mercy Mains till the end of time or the Rework. My bet is they made the correct decision.

[Mitrovarr-1405]

Up to gold and even then, Ana is supposed to be bad in those ranks. Mercy definitely shouldn’t have the 2nd worse winrate amongst the supports in those ranks.

I’m pretty sure Ana isn’t supposed to be bad anywhere. I think it’s just a natural consequence of being a high skill character, not an intentional part of her design.

Anyways, there are a lot of easy supports to play these days. Moira and Brig are around now, and arguably Lucio is pretty easy to play too. Mercy has a lot of competition around the low ranks.

Also, if you look at the winrates in low ranks, Mercy is typically just around 1% worse than Moira, the other main healer. So she’s perfectly playable, just not the best main healer. I don’t know why the three off healers are always higher in winrate, maybe main+off healer comps are just better than double main healer or single main healer comps.

[Ares-24688]

Everything,

Completely nonsense ultimate.

Imagine it in DPS form, Reaper would press triangle and kill all enemies in the radius of the mass rez at the second after activation, fun right? its similiar.