What really was wrong with mass Resurrect?


#1

Other than “Hide n Res” I’ve never really heard any other problems with mass Ressurrect. Even then, “Hide n Res” shouldn’t even be considered a problem because without the SR system incentivising it, it would’ve died down on its own. Do tell if there was any other problems with mass Resurrect and I’ll try my best to refute it. :smiley:


List of possible issues


  • Hide n Res - Would’ve died on its own.
  • Disheartening to play against - I mean… What ultimate isn’t disheartening to play against when successfully pulled off?
  • No counterplay - I mean, yeah, invulnerability was an issue but mass Resurrect still was incredibly straight-forward to counter. Why else would she have been a throw pick before invulnerability? Here’s one easy counter: use 1 ultimate. Also, could’ve been fixed with a cast time.

#2

If Genji pulls off a DragonBlade in your whole team, you can Trans, or Sound Barrier, or boop him or stun him. If Mercy gets Rez off, then her whole team comes back.

This mightn’t have killed the whole team, as people always tried to. Even then, Mercy could Tempo Rez and force you to commit another 1-2 Ults, all 3 of which (the original ult and the second/third one) will still be charging long after Mercy gets rez back.


#3

I was indifferent to it, but a lot of players disliked how long games could go onto because of it. Being on overtime four 4 extra minutes because both Mercy’s revived the team was very annoying.


#4

Both are still disheartening to play against when pulled of successfully though.

Baiting ultimates is a good skill tbh.

That’s true I guess but two things. One, her ultimate is not supposed to be used for stalling. :confused: Two, her ultimate isn’t the only ultimate which has the potential to stall fights.


#5

Regardless of intention that is something that happened a lot. I remember when I was in plat we used to have overtime on point B Anubis that was like 15 minutes long. Things were ridiculous.


#6

I think both sides tend to oversimplify their statements when they talk about mass rez. One of them is mercy being a “troll pick” before valk, which isn’t quite true. Don’t forget that she was the only main healer upon release. And zen was super weak then. She wasn’t really fantastic after open beta, but she wasn’t absolute garbage. Ana overshadowed her upon release, but that quickly changed. And right before her rework, Mercy was creeping into status of the go to support. It’s not hard to counter rez with ults no, but it also wasn’t as easy as some people made it out to be.

I do remember playing pre-invulnerability rez. It kind of sucked. You died a lot more attempting a rez. It didn’t inherently mean you lost a fight when mercy died, but it made it a lot harder. So why would you want pre-invulnerability rez back? She’ll be more fun? Not really in my opinion.

However, it also couldn’t be worse than first version valk was.

My “problem” with mercy, is that she still has no mid fight potential. She started with no midfight potential, hence “hide and rez”. She couldn’t help in the midfight, so all she could do was counter it at the end. That was boring for a hero with so much mobility and focus on healing.

Then they gave us valk, which gave her crazy mid fight potential. But she was broken.

And now we have mercy with no mid fight potential really, but also no ability to counter the enemy after the fight as well. I don’t think she’s “terrible” like some claim. I like her on defense for example. But she’s still suffering from the issues they tried to fix.

When they said she was getting a rework I imagined her mas rez ult was going to be changed to: she has x number of seconds in which she can solo rez any teammate she can. Maybe a small cast time, and no invulnerability. Then I thought she would get an e ability that could be used in the mid fight, encouraging her to use her rez more to swing a fight than counter it.

But c’est la vie.


#7

“What really was wrong with mass Resurrect”
The fact you could Resurrect your entire team.


#8

Oh, well… yes. Mass Res in those ranks would’ve worked really well for anything, really. No offence, but plats aren’t particularly the brightest bunch. :sweat_smile:


#9

I don’t find the former disheartening. If Genji gets 4 kills, then that’s like 5-6 seconds where you had time to do something about it. If Mercy rezzes for 4 people, that’s 4 more people to fight.

Big difference. After pressing Q, most ults have a counter or counters which can counter them, or reduce their effectiveness. Rez didn’t. It instantly affected everyone. Not really acceptable for what was probably the most impactful ult in the game.

With no counter play. If your team is behind a little, but you could recover the fight with ults, you lose the fight. If you use an ult to put you in the lead, Mercy will Rez, it forcing out more ults or forcing a reset, conceding that you wasted one ult. Either way, next fight the enemy has the ult advantage, because Mercy will get rez back first.


#10

Yeah, but there’s a lot of players in silver, gold and plat so you have to take into consideration that the game was just understandably long for a large percentage of the player base.


#11

The main issue the Dev. team had with it was that it promoted a style of gameplay (both from players encouraging Mercy players to do this and Mercy players themselves doing it from being encouraged to do so) that the dev. team didn’t like.

You were most rewarded from Mass Rez when you let the most amount of people die as possible to the enemy Ultimates. Rather than be used in the middle of the fight, it encouraged Mercy to opt out of participating in the fight and then Rez after the enemy expended resources to win said fight.


#12

Personally, even tho I’m a mercy main, I have quite a few problems with mass Rez.

  • Hide and Rez. This was a strat that was used to exploit the broken SR system however just because the SR system is better does not mean thins playstyle would go away. There’s a possibility that every now and then you’ll get a player who decides hide and Rez is a valid playstyle, even though it’s not, and is just a bad strategy.

  • no counterplay. It would be a guess of does mercy have Rez? go find her before we initiate the fight or we will probably loose.

  • unfun. No one likes thinking they’ve won a fight after investing ultimates to have it erased by the mercy the eliminated at the start of the fight.

  • unhealthy for the game. Mass Rez caused very poor playstyles one of which was hide and Rez which would mean a main healer would usually remove themselves from the fight and stop healing. This playstyle was poor for mercy.

However I do have reasoning why it should come back. personally I believe that if mass Rez was implemented back into the game or even tested on ptr with major changes such as;

  • damage reduction replacing invun
  • cast time
  • LOS checkers
  • No longer is a radius ultimate
  • ultimate charge decay ( if need be)

Not to mention that with the copious amounts of CC, she could easily be stunned out of Rez or even denied by Hammond and his mines as Mercy would no longer have invun to protect her. (Ps mass Rez into a Hammond ult would be a horrific idea)

Mass Rez can receive changes to make it fair and balanced and less of oh here she comes… yep okay RETAKE.

however If blizzard decide it still does not work or mercy players complain about it then all I can say is simply remove Rez. It has no place on cooldown evident by her rework and if it has no place on Q (even after heavy changes) it’s obvious it doesn’t belong in overwatch so just scrap it.

I’m not here to get told my opinion is wrong or bicker so don’t expect me to sympathise with one side of a argument because I see both sides equally.


#13

Which has the same end result as Transcendence and Sound Barrier…

A deficit of two ultimates isn’t a bad tradeoff when the return for said expense was a teamwipe.

Depends, what ultimates did you use?

Transcendence? You’ll have that back faster.
Tactical Visor? Same deal.
Dragonblade? Same deal.
Nano-Boost? Same deal.
Rocket Barrage? Same deal.
Whole Hog? Same deal.
Pulse Bomb? Same deal.

A lot of the offensive ultimates and 2 of the 3 other healer ultimates charged faster than Resurrect on average.


#14

Before invulnerability** and this was evidently true since she was F-Tier in pro tournaments whilst being the only main healer besides Ana (was released in season 2, right?)

Yep, but that doesn’t mean she wasn’t a troll pick. Before, she had zero utility and an ultimate commonly referred to as, “Suicide Res”. That screams throw pick to me tbh.

I mean, other than suicide res, she really had nothing going on for in terms of mid-fight power. Ana had better heals. Zen had better damage debuff. Lúcio had better mobility.

Because of invulnerability. Yeah, I’d be glad to get rid of that if Jeff ever does come out and says that mass Resurrect will make its return.

I, personally, enjoyed the decision making for mass Resurrect. Also because, Resurrect on a cooldown has so many restrictions just to keep it on a cooldown so it then just becomes bland because of these restrictions.

If mid-fight potential really was an issue, I don’t see why Blizz would be opposed to giving Mercy a new e ability. This one comes to mind:

That really isn’t an issue…

Opinions I guess. Still am confused though. :confused:

I mean, what’s stopping you from killing the Mercy with you first set of ults?

If it wasn’t encouraged by the ultimate, it really shouldn’t be an issue. Otherwise, what’s to stop them from reworking Zen because some people only use Transcendance when the enemy team uses ult comboes?

This is false. The higher the numerical value does not mean the more value. There are a bunch of other stuff you had to take into consideration to determine the value of mass Resurrect. That’s why it’s always going to be weaker than Resurrect on E.

Gonna have to disagree here. Tempo ressing is always the way to go. Not big resses. There are way more advantages if your tempo res as opposed to just aiming for a big res.

This wasn’t encouraged by the ultimate at all. Just players who thought hiding was a good strategy. These players most likely though this because of the broken SR system incentivising hiding. What’s funny is that I can almost guarantee that if fixed the SR system earlier, “Hide n Res” would’ve died on its own.

You just contradicted yourself.

Anything that negates the impact of mass Resurrect should be considered a counter. With that in mind, any wiping ultimate is a counter to mass Resurrect. Main reason why it was such a niche before invulnerability.

2 things.

  • I mean, let’s be real here. You deserve to feel disheartened if you invest ultimates and supposedly just miss the Mercy.

  • Every ultimate, when pulled of successfully, is disheartening to play against.

Again, this wasn’t caused by mass Resurrect. It was really just misinformed players and those who wanted to abuse a broken SR system. The strategy would’ve died on its own if they fixed the SR system earlier.


#15
  • Excessively decisive while being unpredictable; it reduced the outcome of most fights to getting lucky with positioning and checking the right corner
  • More valuable when your team is doing poorly and less valuable when your team is doing well. The inability to ult without a teammate dying means it doesn’t help the team make plays like a support ult should. The game is a 6v6, not 8 people trying to make it the slowest 2v2 ever.
  • Optimal usage(tempo rez) was extremely counterintuitive, and you can implement it without mass rez and all the problems it brings
  • Underpowered even with invincibility, but all the other issues are also independent of balance

#16

I really don’t think it would have gone away. Mercy had no mid fight potential. She couldn’t risk running into battle to help with rez. Especially before invulnerability.

If they gave her mid fight potential with mass rez, it could have helped. Or alternatively, it could have covered her one weakness making her unstoppable.


#17

Literally nothing.

The people who complain about mass rez make it seem like Mercy constantly got 5 man resurrections, which was obviously not the case.

But, since the forum is essentially an echo chamber of Mercy haters and multiple threads popped up regarding these illusive “5 man res’s” happening every game, it was inevitable that she’d get nerfed purely because people didn’t like getting their ultimate countered by an ultimate.


#18

In other words, getting outplayed.

  • That makes no sense. Mass Resurrect instantly loses value if the players being resurrected are bad. As opposed to good players. Ressing them increases the value of mass Resurrect. That being said, this shouldn’t be an issue since we are supposed to be put in games with roughly the same SR.

  • When was there a rule stating that support ultimates should help teammates make plays?

  • Using mass Resurrect to stall is a misuse of the ultimate and can be applied to other ultimates such as Primal Rage. Does Winston need a rework now?

Tempo resses aren’t a fixed number.


#19

I said I wasn’t going to bicker but if you’re gonna tear apart my post, comment on the whole thing and not just pick out the parts you find bad and want to put your input into.

Also can you explain how I contradicted myself? so I can correct it.


#20

“Hey we wiped the enemy team!”
mercy swoops in, presses Q and the entire team resurrects

sigh