What really was wrong with mass Resurrect?

[Arceus-2238]

“Hide n Res” didn’t have the highest reward though.

@PharHǝntoi-1208

Play sloppy, force ults, die on point, Mercy takes 1-2 seconds to fly out, press Q when threatened.

Playing sloppy can force ults, especially in a 5v6? Let’s be realistic here.

@PharHǝntoi-1208

The ONLY counterplay was to EMP the Mercy since EMP is the closest thing to instant denial. No CC was instant, any damage done to the Mercy would threaten her and she’d press Q to bail, even if it was at the cost of not rezzing a teammate or two.

Rez invuln was the worst idea after brig, and rez on E. In what world, should you be rewarded for walking into an enemy team and pressing Q?

Rez invuln is the biggest double standard introduced to OW. Pharah’s ult is literally a meme, and yet the Mercy’s getting called out for poor ults got the buffs that ruined her, and this game for a year.

Agree with this.

@PharHǝntoi-1208

Essentially there were no clear lines to what a good or bad Mercy ult was. That blurred the lines, and obfuscated the SR system.

Intentionally letting your team die to res is a bad Mercy ult

Tempo ressing is a good Mercy ult.

• The SR exploit made it hard to tell which strategy was the best. I’ll tell you now, from what I know since season 3 to 5 as a GM Mercy main. Tempo ressing is the best.

@TheMaelstrom-11479

Bringing up to 5 people back from the dead, if it wasnt for how bad the rest of mercys kit was and ana being op at the time, mercy wouldve been op back then too.

I disagree. The game since then has had some serious power creeps. Heroes are way more broken than before.

@TheMaelstrom-11479

Ally Rez never should have been a mechanic in this game, this is the only game with ‘full ally back from the dead revive’ function.

As this game is a hybrid of 2 game types, it doesn’t have to follow any sort of rules.

@TheMaelstrom-11479

Remove rez and id be okay with whatever they do to mercy in buffs.

How about this?

@Titanium-1686

Valkyrie:

• Removed.

Resurrect:

• Removed as a basic ability and placed as Mercy’s ultimate ability.
• 15 meter range.
• Line of sight requirement. Does not apply to destructibles, payloads, or non-fundamental map obstacles that are too small to actually obscure a player. In other words, none of that BS where a player can move behind a lamp post to evade a nuclear explosion.
• 1 second cast time. Basic movement is unrestricted while casting, but all attacks and abilities are disabled for Mercy during this time.
• If Mercy is stunned or killed while casting, Resurrect does not activate and Mercy loses all ultimate charge.
• All living allies within range and LoS of Mercy once the cast time ends receive a burst heal of 150 HP. Mercy also receives this burst heal.
• All dead allies within range and LoS of Mercy once the cast time ends are revived at full health and receive 2.25 seconds of invulnerability (same as current Resurrect and Resurrect pre-rework).
• Mercy does not receive invulnerability upon Resurrect’s activation.
• Resurrect does not require dead allies to be activated.
• 1625 ultimate charge requirement (the same as Mercy 1.x’s Resurrect).

Most importantly, this takes Resurrect off one of Mercy’s basic abilities and places it into a position that matches its ultimate-like behavior. On top of this, various trade-offs were made to the ability to allow for the healing burst and the introduction of a second basic ability.

The healing burst, post-rez vulnerability, cast time, and LoS requirements all incentivise using Resurrect to revive 0-3 players rather than 4+ players. Attempting to use it on four or more players runs a greater risk a failed resurrect attempt due to the cast time. If Mercy manages to use Resurrect, there is a greater chance that she missed some allies due to the LoS requirement. If those two drawbacks do not drag her team down enough, there is also the fact that Mercy is vulnerable post-rez while her teammates are still reviving.

The healing burst and fire-at-will mechanics on Resurrect make the ability more flexible and open up some unique uses for it. For example, Mercy could use Resurrect to grant her team a burst of healing in the middle of the teamfight to keep their momentum going rather than waiting for an ally to rejoin the fight after being killed and revived.

New Basic Ability - Pacify:

• After a .5 second wind-up, Mercy launches a single hitscan attack from her left hand.
• The projectile’s hitbox size resembles that of Symmetra’s secondary fire.
• The projectile deals no damage upon impact with an enemy. Instead, it applies a debuff that reduces the base damage dealt by the target by 33%. 100 damage is reduced to 67 damage before other damage amplifiers/reductions are factored in.
• This debuff lasts for 4 seconds.
• The projectile does not persist once it hits an enemy. It is only able to affect one enemy for each use.
• The projectile is blocked by barriers, Defense Matrix, and Particle Barriers. It can be deflected by Genji’s Deflect ability.
• 10 second cooldown. The cooldown begins after the ability is cast.
• There is a .25 second wind-down time after Pacify is launched.
• During the wind-up and wind-down times, Mercy is not able to use her staff, her pistol, or Resurrect. She may use Guardian Angel, however.
• Does not affect non-player entities and constructs (turrets, Rip-Tire, Supercharger, etc).

[TheMaelstrom-11479]

still not balanceable, rez as a mechanic, not an ultimate specifically or ability specifically, will never be balanceable.

[Arceus-2238]

Still is balanceable.

[TheMaelstrom-11479]

id preferably just remove the unbalanceable mechanic, or in your view ‘balanceable butd take a ton of time and work’ mechanic.

Rez is a bundle of problems the game doesnt need.

[Arceus-2238]

That can be fixed very easily.

[BlueMonkey-21650]

@Arceus-2238

No counterplay

If they allowed Sombra to cancel MR while the team is still yellow (being rezed) or by making the enemy shield blocks souls. I think it would have been fine.

Or If the made the teammates who got rezed start with 1hp then they receive 200hp/s or something like that so Ana can use her Anti to counter the rez.

But, noooo. let’s rework her.

[TheMaelstrom-11479]

no it cant lol, if it could be itd have been done already as blizzard loves taking the easy way out

[Arceus-2238]

“Easy way out”. That assertion is already disproven by the amount of reworks heroes got.

[TheMaelstrom-11479]

few examples to take away from the many that back up mine.

[Arceus-2238]

Yeah, no. They’ve failed one to many times at taking the easy route. Especially for Mercy.

[Praetorian-21563]

A cast time would not fix it. The cast time would either be too short to feasibly react to, or too long to complete without being interrupted.

[Arceus-2238]

1 second is neither too short or too long when compared to other ultimate cast times.

[TheMaelstrom-11479]

other ultimates cant revive your teammates

[Arceus-2238]

Other ultimates; most ultimates are wiping ultimates. Those are already better than Resurrect. Then there’s support ultimates like Zen’s and Lucio’s. Which is better? It certainly isn’t mass Resurrect.

@Titanium-1686

• An ultimate that turns the entire team into tanks for the next few seconds, in most cases more than tripling a team’s collective health pool, adding to the team’s sustained momentum and offering no advantages to the enemy team?
• An ultimate that makes a team effectively immortal for 6 seconds save for a few specific attacks and abilities, adding to the team’s sustained momentum and offering no advantages to the enemy team?
• An ultimate that brings the team back to life after all momentum has been lost and granting the enemy team both the positioning advantage and the first shot?

Not exactly a hard decision.

[TheMaelstrom-11479]

titanium seems to be the spokesperson for mercy, except titanium forgot one big thing about mass rez.

Mass rez = an ultimate that brings the team back to life after all momentum has been lost and granting the enemy team both the positioning advantage and the first shot? BUT the mercys team has the ability advantage and ult advantage 9/10 as most of the time the enemy team used a lot of resources to wipe them.

Lucios ult and trans are extremely good, but the enemy team just has to prolong the fight for those ults to stop their effect, then use their resources and they win. Not to mention there was multiple ways back then to bypass trans, and a lot of burst ults chewed through lucio ult.

The only reasons mercy was not good back then was because ana herself was overpowered and mercys healing was what it is now, and had worse mobility and a worse passive

cant have two main healers in a comp to be viable

[Arceus-2238]

@TheMaelstrom-11479

Mass rez = an ultimate that brings the team back to life after all momentum has been lost and granting the enemy team both the positioning advantage and the first shot? BUT the mercys team has the ability advantage and ult advantage 9/10 as most of the time the enemy team used a lot of resources to wipe them.

Literally, the other ultimates I listed, you still have your ultimates and abilities.

@TheMaelstrom-11479

Lucios ult and trans are extremely good, but the enemy team just has to prolong the fight for those ults to stop their effect, then use their resources and they win. Not to mention there was multiple ways back then to bypass trans, and a lot of burst ults chewed through lucio ult.

How do you prolong a fight where the enemy team uses an ultimate that makes his team pseudo immortal?

@TheMaelstrom-11479

Not to mention there was multiple ways back then to bypass trans, and a lot of burst ults chewed through lucio ult.

Resurrect would be the easiest to deal with then. They don’t get to be pseudo immortal whilst being able to use their resources for 6 seconds. They don’t get to turn into tanks. They only get revived. After that, the game plays out as normal.

[TheMaelstrom-11479]

@Arceus-2238

Literally, the other ultimates I listed, you still have your ultimates and abilities.

i dont think you got what i mean or im confused on what you just said

@Arceus-2238

How do you prolong a fight where the enemy team uses an ultimate that makes his team pseudo immortal?

thing called positioning, works pretty well. also using those ults counters, back then for lucio it was high burst damage and for zen it was anti grenade

@Arceus-2238

Resurrect would be the easiest to deal with then. They don’t get to be pseudo immortal whilst being able to use their resources for 6 seconds. They don’t get to turn into tanks. They only get revived. After that, the game plays out as normal.

the game does not play out as normal, when they are rezzed they are usually the ones in a severe advantage.

[Joey-1757]

It encouraged Mercy to NOT help her team and instead just go hide somewhere and wait for everyone to die.

That’s what was wrong with it.

[Arceus-2238]

@Joey-1757

It encouraged Mercy to NOT help her team and instead just go hide somewhere and wait for everyone to die.

That’s what was wrong with it.

Wasn’t encouraged by the ultimate and hiding counters itself.

@TheMaelstrom-11479

i dont think you got what i mean or im confused on what you just said

You said the ressed team will have a ultimate advantage. I’m pointing out how this is the same for Lúcio and Zen’s ults. Those ults are reactive ults. You’re not going to just randomly pop it for pseudo immortality against a team not using any ultimates.

@TheMaelstrom-11479

thing called positioning, works pretty well.

Funny, really. Positioning is also the advantage the enemy team gets given when against a ressed team.

@TheMaelstrom-11479

also using those ults counters, back then for lucio it was high burst damage

Mass Ress had counters. People just didn’t bother to counter it.

@TheMaelstrom-11479

the game does not play out as normal, when they are rezzed they are usually the ones in a severe advantage.

Except that’s not the case at all. Besides, you used ultimates in the fight before but you didn’t get the Mercy. Even if they supposedly did have an advantage, that’s your fault for not killing the Mercy with her team.

[TheMaelstrom-11479]

counters like what, hoping to find and kill the mercy?

the only counter to mass rez was killing the mercy before it went off.