It’s Spam
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Another form of spam is mercy threads
I think mass ress would of been fine, if rez cast time to rez someone right now was on massive rez, it would deny the hide because it makes her vulnerable to anything and it would need good counterplay and protection from her team.
Just my idea though.
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Sorry but feedback for a hero is always going to be useful. ![:stuck_out_tongue:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/stuck_out_tongue.png?v=5" ":stuck_out_tongue:")
“/s” means sarcasm btw…
tho if you think res ain’t worth much, lmfao, dude, it’s rly good, it’s just brainless to pull off and completely dependent on your team [meaning if they cover you, you’re good, if not, well, better luck next time]
dmg boost is also waaaay underrated, tho i still prefer Zen for that , but for some team comps, shes still better cause he can’t follow.
i do agree she feels horrid to play, like, i have 400+h on her, i only didn’t play her in S1 cause i got the game during S2.
still, i think it’s nice to see other healers get playtime for a change…tho i do hope they make her more fun sometime in the future but, honestly, at this point, i think there are other heroes that are in far worse state then her. she still has her spot.
I’m getting a little tired of repeating myself here.
I would be fine with one of the bonus’s being added because of the additional drawbacks. I just don’t want to throw too much onto the plate at once.
Agreed with the rest, but the majority of the time, people die in groups, where the team fight ended. With the range of Mercy, it’s a little more difficult to say in-game than in the forums. It really is, once you’ve lost the majority of your ults, even with the consumption / output of ults at low.
It can single handedly return a fight back to the other side, where resources were put it. Ever played Dead By Daylight? A perk called Decisive Strike let’s you get away from the killer on his shoulders for what? DOING THEIR OBJECTIVE. You don’t penalize a well coordinated team with ults for doing their objective.
Which is why Mass Rez would have been fixed with a Cast Time. It would remove every problem with it, even the hide and seek factor and it would give the enemies a chance to finish it off. If she got the 6 man off, then that’s their problem for poor communication.
But when you can’t punish someone from just clicking a button for doing their objective is incorrect. I agree though on the rest.
That’s before the ult. Mercy can prevent this by saving Rez.
Sure, it’s doable, with more ults. If you choose not to use more ults, then you run the risk of losing, thus wasting the original ult(s)
I think if an Ana hits this from in front of the shield, she deserves to get the anti-off. And if she was able to flank to get it off and not feed, then she deserves to get it off. Rez =/= “win the fight when you would have lost it”.
No, because a bio-nade directly prevents Zen from healing his team, but Mercy still rezzes her team.
She still gets full value out of her ult, whereas Zen’s ult (designed to prevent death from sustained damage) loses its value.
Burst damage negates the value of Trans. Bio-nades negate Trans itself. Very different things.
Nor does it have to
Yeah, none of these actually reduce the effectiveness of Rez.
What you do with the advantage Rez gives you isn’t Rez’s problem.
Yes, but if you Rez 5 people, then you have extended the fight. If you pop Trans or SB which is immediately countered by a nade or an EMP etc, then you have not extended the fight, but you still lose the ult.
Expending ults to win a fight when the other team doesn’t isn’t necessarily a misplay. Dumping half of your ults and getting none is definitely a misplay, but if a fight is even or barely one-sided, then ults can viably be used.
It’s very easy to create play-perfect scenarios where either of these options are ridiculous, but my post is solely going off my games. In real games, stuff can happen. Mercy’s Widow can get a pick early one, or an enemy might miss an important ability or it may get countered. Sometimes people just get carried away and use ults inefficiently. So, although the ults status and positions etc are entirely hypothetical, they’re based on real games. The point is, that we’re ultimately comparing Rez to other Support ults. Not to mention that my original post was in reply to the OP who assumed that Rez was used in response to an Ult being used.
This would be very little if 2 ults were used. There wouldn’t be much damage left to do with their standard kit.
I don’t know where this idea of sitting ducks comes from. The Rezzed team are allowed to use abilities once the Rez is complete.
This is a slightly different point to the last one that was similar, so this actually has more weight. Unlike last time, my mention of “risk” assumes that no ults are used after Rez, so all killing done is done with base kit - which grants ult charge. However Team 1 uses 1-2 ults, Team 2 uses Rez. If Team 1 then wins then happy days. Life is good. But if they lose (which they may) they wasted ults. Not only did they waste ults, but more of them died than the enemy team, so the enemy got more ult charge from the fight. Thus, Team 1 is at an ult disadvantage. And if Team 1 commits another ult and wins, then some of the damage done will not grant ult charge, and you’re not going to fully charge 3 ults from one fight.
I did mention, although not to you, that I wasn’t 100% sold on them in the first place, since they were almost always wrong about my stats, so I can’t trust them being right for anyone else.
No, you don’t. Because currently, with so much burst, the “best healer” is the one than can keep the enemy alive the longest through incoming damage. My point was statistics require context - real game application.
I tell you what was wrong with Mass Rez. ITS SIMPLE and ONE WORD…INVULNERABILITY!!! it made her SO op and so trivial because you couldn’t stop her from doing it. They could have done so much to change Mass Rez. Damage Reduction, LOS CHECK, CAST time, I mean literally ANYTHING to make it more approachable and refined but no they messed it up.
I have an alternative solution.
Keep Valk,
If you rez someone during valk it leaves an AOE pool lasting… x seconds
Any ally the dies in the pool will automatically rez from the pool after their respawn timer has expired.
With this change valk has midfight potential and you have mass rez… in a sense but it’s totally counterable with existing heros and requires team coordination
Yep pretty much what I thought. I figured she’d have maybe 5 or 6s to res single tagerts with a cast for each time she used it so there was a chance to boop, stun, sleep hack, etc. Basically counter play.
I also thought they would finally allow her to fly like Valkyrie with maybe a minor addition like GA having a longer distance to get around the map.
Ideally rez as a single target is a lot more for to use but with the current iteration it is highly boring and stacked against the Mercy player to get more value. Valkyrie does a lot of her job for her which makes her player less involved in the fight amd likely less fun to play (obviously subjective).
Me personally at this point removing rez is the best option for her. It’s not looking good for Bliz to hold on to an ability that isnt helping the hero or the game but if they must keep it. A better option would be…
- Single target rez as an ultimate with a 5s or 6s duration (adjustments where needed).
- Rez would have small .50s or.75s cast (adjustments where needed).
- Rez can be interrupted and has LOS with the current single target distance to rez target, no slow on Mercy.
- She can only rez a hero one time during the ult usage. So if a hero dies and she revives but they die immediately after or she is interrupted, she cannot rez them again (Failsafe for stalling the point).
Valkyrie as it is now would be changed.
- Valkyrie chained beams are removed.
- It has a 5s flight duration
- It has a 15s cool down and the CD starts after the flight duration is complete.
- It allows her a further distance to us GA only.
- Her beams remain the same length without Valk’s use.
- Uninterrupted regen removed.
- Flight speed adjusted to match Pharah.
And well adjustments where needed to keep her in line. But single target rez is good but only in ult status and with a very tight window of use and counter play. This could be a bad idea but I’m pretty sure it will never be explored so it is what it is.
She’s just a bad hero and always has been but I never had as much issue with her pre or post iframe mass Ressurect than I have had with Valkyrie in all of her forms upon release and all of her nerfs.
Going by that logic, killing shouldn’t be allowed because that’s punishing someone for trying to complete their objectives.
That’s the nature of PvP games. One team is always going to punish the other for trying to complete objectives while they simultaneously try to complete their own objectives.
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Which then grants your team more time to kill her.
If you stopped her the first time she flew in - the time in which, out of all of her attempts, would be the one time she might have the element of surprise - then it isn’t hard to hit her again with another form of CC. By that time, it’s over for the Mercy.
And in many cases, the Mercy player would use Resurrect immediately after being knocked back because they were anticipating being within range by that time, only to realize they had a “X2” on their screen after the Resurrection, when they thought they had a “X4”.
And, unlike Mercy, knocking back Zenyatta just means he’s going to shrug that off and surge forward again at 11 m/s; he can’t be killed unless he falls off the map.
Why does it take more ultimates to kill a team that is easier to kill?
You run the risk of losing anyway. That’s literally a fundamental part of a teamfight.
That’s… literally my point. I’ve seen Ana’s get this Biotic Grenade off, and I’ve done it a few times myself. Its is a perfect way to counter Resurrect.
It doesn’t prevent Zenyatta from dishing out the healing. It prevents Zenyatta’s teammates from receiving the healing.
The ultimate itself isn’t affected.
If the team gets wiped right after being Resurrected, Mercy received no value from Resurrect.
Going by that terminology, it’s not Transcendence that is important; it is the value gained from it.
If Transcendence is unimpeded, but it holds no value in this situation, the ultimate is useless.
If Resurrect is unimpeded, but holds no value in this situation, the ultimate is useless.
You’re trying to make a differentiation between two things that at the end of the day, result in exactly the same thing.
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make with this.
They reduce the value gained by Resurrect, and therefore the effectiveness of Resurrect.
If Mercy’s teammates are scattered in space and/or time, Resurrect has no value, or potentially negative value.
If Mercy is dead, Resurrect has no value.
If the enemy team drops an ultimate on the freshly-revived team, Resurrect has no value, or potentially negative value.
Where are you getting the notion that I said it is?
If the enemy plays their hand well, Resurrect can have so little value that it simply isn’t worth using it. That’s exactly my point.
If the Resurrection is immediately followed by the entire team being wiped again, it has about the same effect on fight duration as the EMP on Sound Barrier or the Biotic Grenade on Transcendence… if you could even call it a fight at that point.
In which case, why are you engaging?
If their team is the one deciding when the engagement begins, why are they banking on Resurrect when they already have an advantage?
Which was exactly what Resurrect was designed to punish. If you get carried away and blow ultimates unnecessarily, it backfires. The solution? Be smart about your ultimates.
And Resurrect was on par with said support ults.
There are 4 other players on the team, correct?
And again:
Why are they using 2 ultimates in a fight that is either a 5v6, or a 6v6 in which they didn’t kill the Mercy with either of those ultimates?
This principle applied to the rest of the abilities in the gamecombined with the fact that the team hardly has any time to reposition before being thrown into the fight.
Then they got outplayed, looking at how all of those advantages favored them.
If you kill… 10 players in one fight, then yeah, you very well might charge 3 ultimates, if you include the healing done in all of that.
They got my stats right. 
Assuming you are trying to draw a conclusion from the statistics that are not described by the statistics themselves. That set of data clearly demonstrates that Resurrect charged slower on average than many ultimates that people believed charged slower than it; those are just numbers. The numbers can’t lie.
Now, if I were to make an argument about Mercy’s viability, additional context would be needed, as I’m trying to extract a meaning from the statistics that is not restricted to raw numbers.
That context doesn’t necessarily need to be in-game experience, although it does help. That context can be more specific statistics, or statistics from an earlier date. For example, before Mercy’s last nerf was announced, I made a thread dissecting current and previous statistics to show that, according to the statistics, Mercy was overpowered.
I could go back and use those same statistics along with current statistics to make a post demonstrating how underpowered Mercy currently is.
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It’ll never happen if people just stop whining. How does the whining hurt you, anyways?
Yea, but once the objective has been done, they shouldn’t be punished or overturned on what they did and make it turn back into them. You are greatly mistaken in my opinion, to balance like that.
This is unreliable. With the speed of GA, and whatever height advantage she may have Mercy doesn’t always die that easily. Even on top tier games, Mercy still got rez off often. Sure, maybe not as many 5 man rezzes, but 3-4 wasn’t uncommon.
Not to mention the fact that in some spots she has the liberty of being able to Rez from the safety of behind a wall, or underground.
Because Mercy Qed all over the first 1-2 ult(s).
If you Ult combo to kill 5 people, and then de-mech Dva, it’s a 1v6/5. There is no real risk of losing that fight. Sure, because this is people we’re talking about, you can’t rule anything out. 4 of them could fall off the map and Dva could kill the last one. But I mean, come on. As I’ve said, I’m discussing based on practical application. Not next to impossible hypothetical situations that technically could happen.
Ressurect still did its job. Ressurect still brought 5 people back. The “sitting ducks” as you call them could have punished Ana for being out of position. And, again, you can’t rely on an Ana to hit a nade during that split second window. If the Rein were to Shield jump backwards, he’d block it. Now, most Reins aren’t going to have the foresight to shield jump backwards immediately after being rezzed, and I’m trying to base this off practice, but it demonstrates how flimsy nading past the shield is.
This would be comparable to Mercy pressing Q, losing her Rez and her team just not being revived. You’re not doing a great job of understanding how the two scenarios are different.
See, this is where we need new words. “Value” and “value” are different. Look the same, don’t they? For example, kills are valuable, right? Widow gets 4 kills. That’s a lot of value. Enemy Grav-Bomb kills everyone but the tanks, who Tracer and Zarya clean up. Suddenly, those 4 Kills lose all of their value. But getting 4 kills is still incredibly valuable. Again, a somewhat unlikely example, but I’m just giving a scenario.
If Mercy Rezzes 5 people, then she got loads of value. But if they can’t win the fight despite getting Rezzed, then Rez didn’t a achieve anything in the long run, so it’s considered to have been valuless. But it isn’t Rez’s vault that the team still lost. Rez did literally everything it could. It 100% fulfilled it’s potential - it gave the team another chance. That is the value of Rez. However, this gets degraded to “Valuless Rez” when it’s on the players to make the win out of the opportunity.
Again, no. The job of Trans is to outheal sustain damage. If someone gets bio-naded, then directly prevents Trans from doing its job. Rez’s job is to give you another opportunity to fight without waiting 15+ seconds and without giving the enemy time to group up, wait for any lost members, heal up and take good positioning. That Rez’s job. It will do this 100% on every Q press. It is not Rez’s job to win you the fight.
This is true for every support Ult, and isn’t “counter play”.
This is true for every Ult.
No, you got an extra Ult out of it and are going into the next fight at least even when you would have been down an Ult, or ahead by an Ult, if they used an Ult to wipe in the first place. That’s value.
You’re whole argument is based on the fact that Rez doesn’t always win you the fight, therefore it’s bad.
Yes, but when your argument is the Rez equivalent of “Dragon blades a terrible Ult. Just sleep dart him! 4Head. Negative value Ult” your point isn’t exactly as strong as you think it is.
This is actually a bad comparison on my part. At least with Lucio. If you get countered by another Ult. That’s value. So EMPing a Sound Barrier is very similar to Graving Newly-Rezzed. But bio-nading Trans is not, since Ana’s team loses nothing for it.
Again, you can make a play-perfect scenario, but it’s not real so it doesn’t mean much. Early pick =/= won fight. That’s before you consider the fact that people make mistakes. We’re not all super humans that know exactly how the fight should be played to ensure a win and can’t replicate it easily.
This goes back to my point about chess. Mercy has the power to undo any offensive ult/combo of her choice (if she’s alive). So, the engaging team can use 1 Ult and risk it not being enough to kill the team, or they can use more Ults and risk Mercy getting a lot of value from Rez.
In terms of value, yes (arguably stronger, but I’ll settle for on par) but it had significantly less counter play. Plethora of counter abilities/Ults vs hope you kill her before she can get it off.
Yes? I don’t see your point? If that ult combo is, say Nano-Blade, or Grav Strike, how much Ult charge do you think the other 4 players are actually going to get?
Already addressed this. You repeating it doesn’t mean I need to re-answer it.
Neither team has time to reposition before the fight.
I thought you were initially saying the other team had the advantage?
Killing with Ults does not grant charge.
I’m not saying that they’re lying. Or that they’re even wrong. I’ve already voiced my opinion on this.
Context less statistics don’t give context to context less statistics
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Oh, okay then. I don’t think there’s too much though 
It rewarded Mercy’s for poor ult usage and thus there was never a bad time to use her ult.
Solorez to not die to a flanker.
Temporez to keep your teammates up.
Massrez to turn the tides of a team fight.
Essentially there were no clear lines to what a good or bad Mercy ult was. That blurred the lines, and obfuscated the SR system.
Prior to invuln, if a Mercy tried to go for a mass rez, she would either die before or after she pressed Q. That was her punishment for a bad ult.
Then after rez, Mercy could automatically start charging her next ult, and keep her team healed up. This was too strong if the enemy was at a player disadvantage.
This promoted sloppy mercy play and hide and rez was the easiest strat to pull off with the highest reward:
Play sloppy, force ults, die on point, Mercy takes 1-2 seconds to fly out, press Q when threatened.
It wasn’t a problem because it always happened, it was a problem when it happened.
The ONLY counterplay was to EMP the Mercy since EMP is the closest thing to instant denial. No CC was instant, any damage done to the Mercy would threaten her and she’d press Q to bail, even if it was at the cost of not rezzing a teammate or two.
Rez invuln was the worst idea after brig, and rez on E. In what world, should you be rewarded for walking into an enemy team and pressing Q?
Rez invuln is the biggest double standard introduced to OW. Pharah’s ult is literally a meme, and yet the Mercy’s getting called out for poor ults got the buffs that ruined her, and this game for a year.
Bringing up to 5 people back from the dead, if it wasnt for how bad the rest of mercys kit was and ana being op at the time, mercy wouldve been op back then too.
Ally Rez never should have been a mechanic in this game, this is the only game with ‘full ally back from the dead revive’ function.
Remove rez and id be okay with whatever they do to mercy in buffs.
The objective hasn’t been completed yet, has it?
Mercy is still alive.