What really was wrong with mass Resurrect?


#258

This is unreliable. With the speed of GA, and whatever height advantage she may have Mercy doesn’t always die that easily. Even on top tier games, Mercy still got rez off often. Sure, maybe not as many 5 man rezzes, but 3-4 wasn’t uncommon.

Not to mention the fact that in some spots she has the liberty of being able to Rez from the safety of behind a wall, or underground.

Because Mercy Qed all over the first 1-2 ult(s).

If you Ult combo to kill 5 people, and then de-mech Dva, it’s a 1v6/5. There is no real risk of losing that fight. Sure, because this is people we’re talking about, you can’t rule anything out. 4 of them could fall off the map and Dva could kill the last one. But I mean, come on. As I’ve said, I’m discussing based on practical application. Not next to impossible hypothetical situations that technically could happen.

Ressurect still did its job. Ressurect still brought 5 people back. The “sitting ducks” as you call them could have punished Ana for being out of position. And, again, you can’t rely on an Ana to hit a nade during that split second window. If the Rein were to Shield jump backwards, he’d block it. Now, most Reins aren’t going to have the foresight to shield jump backwards immediately after being rezzed, and I’m trying to base this off practice, but it demonstrates how flimsy nading past the shield is.

This would be comparable to Mercy pressing Q, losing her Rez and her team just not being revived. You’re not doing a great job of understanding how the two scenarios are different.

See, this is where we need new words. “Value” and “value” are different. Look the same, don’t they? For example, kills are valuable, right? Widow gets 4 kills. That’s a lot of value. Enemy Grav-Bomb kills everyone but the tanks, who Tracer and Zarya clean up. Suddenly, those 4 Kills lose all of their value. But getting 4 kills is still incredibly valuable. Again, a somewhat unlikely example, but I’m just giving a scenario.

If Mercy Rezzes 5 people, then she got loads of value. But if they can’t win the fight despite getting Rezzed, then Rez didn’t a achieve anything in the long run, so it’s considered to have been valuless. But it isn’t Rez’s vault that the team still lost. Rez did literally everything it could. It 100% fulfilled it’s potential - it gave the team another chance. That is the value of Rez. However, this gets degraded to “Valuless Rez” when it’s on the players to make the win out of the opportunity.

Again, no. The job of Trans is to outheal sustain damage. If someone gets bio-naded, then directly prevents Trans from doing its job. Rez’s job is to give you another opportunity to fight without waiting 15+ seconds and without giving the enemy time to group up, wait for any lost members, heal up and take good positioning. That Rez’s job. It will do this 100% on every Q press. It is not Rez’s job to win you the fight.

This is true for every support Ult, and isn’t “counter play”.

This is true for every Ult.

No, you got an extra Ult out of it and are going into the next fight at least even when you would have been down an Ult, or ahead by an Ult, if they used an Ult to wipe in the first place. That’s value.

You’re whole argument is based on the fact that Rez doesn’t always win you the fight, therefore it’s bad.

Yes, but when your argument is the Rez equivalent of “Dragon blades a terrible Ult. Just sleep dart him! 4Head. Negative value Ult” your point isn’t exactly as strong as you think it is.

This is actually a bad comparison on my part. At least with Lucio. If you get countered by another Ult. That’s value. So EMPing a Sound Barrier is very similar to Graving Newly-Rezzed. But bio-nading Trans is not, since Ana’s team loses nothing for it.

Again, you can make a play-perfect scenario, but it’s not real so it doesn’t mean much. Early pick =/= won fight. That’s before you consider the fact that people make mistakes. We’re not all super humans that know exactly how the fight should be played to ensure a win and can’t replicate it easily.

This goes back to my point about chess. Mercy has the power to undo any offensive ult/combo of her choice (if she’s alive). So, the engaging team can use 1 Ult and risk it not being enough to kill the team, or they can use more Ults and risk Mercy getting a lot of value from Rez.

In terms of value, yes (arguably stronger, but I’ll settle for on par) but it had significantly less counter play. Plethora of counter abilities/Ults vs hope you kill her before she can get it off.

Yes? I don’t see your point? If that ult combo is, say Nano-Blade, or Grav Strike, how much Ult charge do you think the other 4 players are actually going to get?

Already addressed this. You repeating it doesn’t mean I need to re-answer it.

Neither team has time to reposition before the fight.

I thought you were initially saying the other team had the advantage?

Killing with Ults does not grant charge.

I’m not saying that they’re lying. Or that they’re even wrong. I’ve already voiced my opinion on this.

Context less statistics don’t give context to context less statistics


#259

Oh, okay then. I don’t think there’s too much though :confused:


#260

It rewarded Mercy’s for poor ult usage and thus there was never a bad time to use her ult.

Solorez to not die to a flanker.

Temporez to keep your teammates up.

Massrez to turn the tides of a team fight.

Essentially there were no clear lines to what a good or bad Mercy ult was. That blurred the lines, and obfuscated the SR system.

Prior to invuln, if a Mercy tried to go for a mass rez, she would either die before or after she pressed Q. That was her punishment for a bad ult.

Then after rez, Mercy could automatically start charging her next ult, and keep her team healed up. This was too strong if the enemy was at a player disadvantage.

This promoted sloppy mercy play and hide and rez was the easiest strat to pull off with the highest reward:

Play sloppy, force ults, die on point, Mercy takes 1-2 seconds to fly out, press Q when threatened.

It wasn’t a problem because it always happened, it was a problem when it happened.

The ONLY counterplay was to EMP the Mercy since EMP is the closest thing to instant denial. No CC was instant, any damage done to the Mercy would threaten her and she’d press Q to bail, even if it was at the cost of not rezzing a teammate or two.

Rez invuln was the worst idea after brig, and rez on E. In what world, should you be rewarded for walking into an enemy team and pressing Q?

Rez invuln is the biggest double standard introduced to OW. Pharah’s ult is literally a meme, and yet the Mercy’s getting called out for poor ults got the buffs that ruined her, and this game for a year.


#261

Bringing up to 5 people back from the dead, if it wasnt for how bad the rest of mercys kit was and ana being op at the time, mercy wouldve been op back then too.

Ally Rez never should have been a mechanic in this game, this is the only game with ‘full ally back from the dead revive’ function.

Remove rez and id be okay with whatever they do to mercy in buffs.


#262

The objective hasn’t been completed yet, has it?

Mercy is still alive.


#263

“Hide n Res” didn’t have the highest reward though.

Playing sloppy can force ults, especially in a 5v6? Let’s be realistic here. :joy:

Agree with this.

Intentionally letting your team die to res is a bad Mercy ult

Tempo ressing is a good Mercy ult.

  • The SR exploit made it hard to tell which strategy was the best. I’ll tell you now, from what I know since season 3 to 5 as a GM Mercy main. Tempo ressing is the best.

I disagree. The game since then has had some serious power creeps. Heroes are way more broken than before.

As this game is a hybrid of 2 game types, it doesn’t have to follow any sort of rules.

How about this?


#264

still not balanceable, rez as a mechanic, not an ultimate specifically or ability specifically, will never be balanceable.


#265

Still is balanceable.


#266

id preferably just remove the unbalanceable mechanic, or in your view ‘balanceable butd take a ton of time and work’ mechanic.

Rez is a bundle of problems the game doesnt need.


#267

That can be fixed very easily.


#268

If they allowed Sombra to cancel MR while the team is still yellow (being rezed) or by making the enemy shield blocks souls. I think it would have been fine.

Or If the made the teammates who got rezed start with 1hp then they receive 200hp/s or something like that so Ana can use her Anti to counter the rez.

But, noooo. let’s rework her.


#269

no it cant lol, if it could be itd have been done already as blizzard loves taking the easy way out


#270

“Easy way out”. That assertion is already disproven by the amount of reworks heroes got.


#271

few examples to take away from the many that back up mine.


#272

Yeah, no. They’ve failed one to many times at taking the easy route. Especially for Mercy.


#273

A cast time would not fix it. The cast time would either be too short to feasibly react to, or too long to complete without being interrupted.


#274

1 second is neither too short or too long when compared to other ultimate cast times.


#275

other ultimates cant revive your teammates


#276

Other ultimates; most ultimates are wiping ultimates. Those are already better than Resurrect. Then there’s support ultimates like Zen’s and Lucio’s. Which is better? It certainly isn’t mass Resurrect.


#277

titanium seems to be the spokesperson for mercy, except titanium forgot one big thing about mass rez.

Mass rez = an ultimate that brings the team back to life after all momentum has been lost and granting the enemy team both the positioning advantage and the first shot? BUT the mercys team has the ability advantage and ult advantage 9/10 as most of the time the enemy team used a lot of resources to wipe them.

Lucios ult and trans are extremely good, but the enemy team just has to prolong the fight for those ults to stop their effect, then use their resources and they win. Not to mention there was multiple ways back then to bypass trans, and a lot of burst ults chewed through lucio ult.

The only reasons mercy was not good back then was because ana herself was overpowered and mercys healing was what it is now, and had worse mobility and a worse passive

cant have two main healers in a comp to be viable