And probably still within walking distance. it’s like what 8m max…
YOu don’t have to burn matrix and bubble just to get close.
And even then, why not just, target someone else. Hanzo is not immortal but if he’s that much of an issue go for the Ana.
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If it is havana, sure.
The bottom line is Hanzo is due for nerfs anyways, because they need to keep ranged oneshot heroes in check.
And if that means they gotta drop Hanzo to the point that he’s not “GM viable”. Oh well. There’s gonna be like 19 other DPS heroes. And they can’t all be meta viable in GM.
Fixing tanks is a heck if a lot more important than Hanzo.
3 Likes
Frankly, Widow capability to dominate maps often comes down to LOS and capability to hit shots, considering most map always has a spot that Widow can do well, she’s often utilized a lot and at higher levels, it’s not unusual to run widow since they can hit those shots and dominate.
Even tight maps like Anubis/King’s Row 3rd point, and Lijiang Satelitte, Widow always has a spot.
Hanzo is being a strong generalist and he’s still one of the strongest projectile heroes. Barring maybe Echo.
I say drop his damage by 20% then give him a 2.5x headshot modifier, and reduce the storm arrows to 3.
Instead of his current 475 to 950 damage.
It would be more like 265 to 662 damage.
If he’s landing all bodyshots on a Tank it shouldn’t be putting them much past half health.
And a ranged instakill hero doesn’t need to be good at breaking barriers.
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DPS players never asked for this. Stop making it seem like the big bad DPS are the reason behind this. Even they hate Hanzo.
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Wanna know what the reasoning is? bad hero balancing.
Rein has 0 bearing on making burst damage higher.
False. They nerfed her top damage when they gave her the consistency buff (or shortly after)
Yes, I’ll give you that one. Though I’d argue he’s never been meta enough for that to matter much.
If we’re going back to when ORISA was introduced, that is long before I think this problem materialized. Sigma’s introduction, you could maybe argue, but even that was before tank TTK became much lower.
You are statistically incorrect here. Ball averages less damage than Dva, Zarya, Roadhog, Orisa, and Sigma. He’s on-par damage wise with Rein. The only tank with lower damage stats is Winston, and it’s only by a small amount.
Ball has a fairly low-damage gun and his abilities are mainly powerful in disruption, not damage.
Agreed.
But not to do less damage.
Scatter shot was a lottery. It would randomly do a lot, but most often not do much. Storm gives him much better burst.
You’re forgetting that Ash’s nerfs are all PARTIAL reverts of previous buffs. She’s far better than she was. Viper is much more dangerous.
Even then, her nerfs means she does less damage but fires faster. So she’s worse against squishies, the same against tanks.
Had her charge-up reduced, not her damage. But she was never a tank killer and doesn’t contribute to high TTK on tanks.
Again, the nerfs were ONLY reverts to previous buffs.
Excuse me. Symmetra’s beam does A LOT more damage than it used to. Turrets do more damage than they used to as a support (she just had more of them).
*Most.
Because her burst damage on release was too much?
You’ve shown no good examples of this. It’s either been reverts to GOATS-era buffs or Widow. That’s literally it.
And, lest we forget,
Soldier is undeniably better
Sombra’s damage is better
Tracer can deal damage from longer ranges
Bastion’s damage has been buffed in recon + better spread in sentry
Genji’s damage was increased
DPS weren’t toned down. A lot of goats-era buffs were PARTIALLY reverted.
And tanks have been toned down consistently since goats, up until recently when a few of them started getting buffs, DVA and Hog being the biggest benficiaries. On net though, Sigma, Orisa, Ball, and Zarya are undeniably worse than they used to be.
Rein and D.va are also still suffering from age-old nerfs like a loss of DM range or rein’s loss of CC on his ult. You could argue they are better now holistically, and I think some might, but imho the buffs don’t quite compensate.
Either way, that cast as a whole is less powerful than it was 1-2 years ago. DPS as a whole is more powerful than 1-2 years ago.
Tanks contribute to the burst problem. This I agree with. But the narrative that tanks have been consistently buffed and DPS have been consistently nerfed is just NOT based in fact.
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when they stop abusing busted heros maybe i will stop making them seem like they are
because most of abilities are useless vs hanzo stormarrow, he melt shields he melt matrix aswell giving opening to other things, winston bubble? he can just go in and melt him, (and wiston dmg is too low to kill him=
don’t dive him when he have storm arrow? cool , when? the cooldown is ridicolous low for a hero who can snipe from horizon lunar colony to route 66
2 Likes
storm arrows become stupid against what they’re supposed to be for, then
If you have to land all the arrows (bodyshots) to kill a reaper or 4/5 to get any squishy, or 3/5 to get a tracer… they might as well not exist imo.
So a marksman who can’t land headshots gets outclassed at short range by shotgun guy.
How is that supposed to be a problem?
Although I guess they could go the other way around and make it so he can’t oneshot 200hp targets, and make his bodyshot better. With a 1.5x headshot modifier.
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Short answer;
Blizzard doesn’t understand what a competitive game is. ‘Muh skill shots’.
Long answer;
Evaluating skill-expression is a very complicated (and, in some parts, subjective) thing. What the hero-design team at Blizzard (and in most game companies) don’t realise is that showing skill isn’t enough; understanding skill is also required.
It’s not enough that a shot is difficult to land, the game must also understand the difference between that shot’s landing being deserved or undeserved (and how deserved it was). One of the most tragic parts of Overwatch is that it wants to keep TTKs low for a thematic reason (which is fine, that’s just what the game is), but they have failed in implementing many mechanics that adequately determine skill in such a short time. Less time means less data and less certainty in the outcome. Games like R6Siege are also blighted with this.
So, what happens when you take this glaring issue of consistency and you make a hero that is heavily based around it (like Hanzo, Widow, Ashe, McCree, etc.)? You get a hero that takes a high amount of skill to squeeze a little consistency out of them while plenty of players are getting decent value from showing very little.
A Widow with a 10% hit-rate is going to ‘often’ hit first-shot-OHKs, despite having an overall damage-output of a 10th. Other heroes, like Soldier or Zarya, who need to consistently hit successive shots don’t get given these arbitrary bursts in value that are independent of skill.
In a game where you only get 5-8 teamfights per game; an arbitrary delete on a hero breaks the game and severely limits skill-expression of both the deleter and the delete-ee.
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Another day, another “This hero is unfair to me, so I want him nerfed” thread.
Get good.
Getting good doesn’t solve fundamental design issues and saying ‘get good’ only avoids the conversation completely.
Fingers-in-ears isn’t a point.
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As a diamond to master level tank, I worry about Hanzo very little. I worry far more about Reaper, Mei, or Doom. Hanzo is nowhere near as oppressive to tanks as you make him out to be.
Once again, get good.
I didn’t make him out to be oppressive.
“I haven’t noticed an issue, therefore there is no issue” isn’t a point either.
Sounds like you need to “get good” at basic conversations before trying to insult someone for having an opinion.
More like the bottom line is that fixing Tanks and fixing queue times is more important than how 1 out of 20 DPS will perform in GM.
If that means Hanzo isn’t viable at all in Masters/GM, then that’s fine.
Sorry that your opinion only matches up with other sheep who follow the notion that because a hero is strong in the right hands, that he is OP.
Can’t help you can’t use the correct counters, so you in turn come to forums to complain. Get off your *** and work for your skill, the majority of the game will be waiting in higher SR.
There is no fixing tanks without a massive massive overhaul of the entire game, and that’s fact. Fixing queue times won’t happen either without the same.