What is so hard to understand. I’m referring to peoples reactions to the most recent changes. And posed a little scenario that mirrors what is going in in the most recent changes. You’re still not on the same page as me so I guess I have nothing left to say to you either except too bad you didn’t get the point.
I’ve seen the exact same post with donuts instead of dollar a few days back…
This is getting old.
I do get your point, that doesn’t make it right however. Your point is the same as:
- A person enters your house and tries to murder you.
- You hurt the person in self-defense and he ends up in hospital.
- There’s a trial set to decide whether you are guilty or not.
And you basically say let’s ignore 1) and focus on 2) and 3).
When we talk about balance, fun is not a factor. You cannot have an OP character because it’s fun to the player that plays it. Balance change should be made due to a multi-varied analysis based on data and numbers, not on feelings or something that is abstract like “fun”. You can’t measure fun in the context of balance.
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Well said. I’ve seen quite a few posts like this going around, but sadly most people probably aren’t going to read and just hit with the same old
“ugh Mercy mains are so ungrateful why can’t they just be happy with the buff”
nonsense that’s been happening for the last 3 days.
I also tried making a similar thread earlier and some people did try to understand, but others just kinda continued the blind “ugh Mercy why are they so whiny” posts and left before really thinking about anything I said.
Sigh. What do we have to do to get a functional and fun character again?
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No your scenario is multifaceted and more complex with more factors included
Might I ask what you would find as fun for Mercy? She functions pretty well in my opinion but I would like to know what you deem as fun.
And yours isn’t?
You already have a fully functional and fun character.
Even this doesn’t work.
The SR exploit came about because Mercy used to get LESS SR than any other character. (So she got $0 dollars while others made let’s say $20.)
Blizzard fixed this in the most lazy way possible: by tying her SR gains to On Fire. Mass Rez was Mercy’s only consistent way to get on fire. (They give Mercy $50, and not even every Mercy, because plenty didn’t even us it.)
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No it isn’t and I even told you this. The moment in question is Mercy 60 hps becoming mercy 50 hps with 60 hps in valk. The scenario being posed is separate to Mercy’s state as a whole. The anecdote is meant to be an entertaining way to put forth that having SOMETHING taken from you and HALF of that SOMETHING given back does not feel very good. It doesn’t make you feel happy, it doesn’t leave you satisfied. It is meant to put it into perspective for those of us who truly don’t understand why people are outraged over two little changes on the ptr.
Don’t bother arguing anymore I’m done replying to you
Feeling like your choices in a match do something.
You can pocket people with sluggish heals now, or maybe damage boost sometimes, but what do you get out of doing that? Valk? And what do you use it for? If you see a rein coming knowing he’s going to shatter, what do you do? What can you do? Nothing. What are you gonna do, pop valk? And watch your team die through your heals regardless? You know pharah has an ult and is going to flank behind your team. You position yourself safely, and call it out, but then, what else do you do? Pop valk? What’s that gonna do? Nothing. It feels like such utter garbage when you use your ultimate and you can do nothing but watch your team die to literally everything and anything regardless of whether you heal them or not.
Mass rez had actual real playmaking ability. Where your choices and actions directly impacted the outcome of a game. For instance, one thing I will always remember is that in one game in overtime, it was me, hanzo, and zarya trying to defend the payload against the enemy team. They killed our Zarya, but I noticed that she had grav, and our hanzo also had dragons. So i made the executive decision to solo rez her, they combod ults, and we won. But anything remotely like that is gone now.
And I don’t just mean rez. The ability to feel like your actions have real, tangible consequences on the outcome of a game is gone. Some people don’t want mass rez back, and fine, whatever, I respect that even though I disagree. However, Mercy should get an ultimate that feels like it actually does something, the way a good EMP feels, or a good death blossom, or a good grav, or team saving trance by Zen. Anything in that vein, regardless of whether rez is in the game or not.
But as it is now, she simply feels sluggish to use, unable to sustain her team despite doing nothing but healing for most of the match, and then all you get as a reward for being a glorified healbot is… being a healbot, but from the sky, where you can’t even heal enough to prevent death. It’s just incredibly frustrating and irritating, and what I miss most is the feeling of being there for your team and able to help them through the hard parts through your own actions. Rezzing people with Mercy before was basically the feeling of saying “It’s okay! Things are looking rough, but I’m here and I’ll support you till the end!” But rez now just feels like a glorified fast respawn. Oh, widow picked us coming out of spawn. Here, come back 5 seconds faster. Oh, look we won the fight, don’t bother walking back, save yourself 15 seconds I have an E for that. And Valk is the same, it’s not a “It’s okay! I’m here for you, fight till your heart’s content, I will back you up!” feeling, it’s a “Oh no, please live ughhh no no no no everyone is dead I guess I’ll fly back to spawn and regroup.” Or, if you’re trying ot use it offensively, it’s a “okay, i got damage boost, oh god what the heck you’re at half health already, oh my god this doesn’t heal fast enough everyone is dying oh look they’re dead.” And then you once again retreat back to spawn.
This is a very long winded response, but that basically covers it I think. Just the concept of feeling like your choices matter, and that you actually contribute in a meaningful way besides existing and holding left click, one whose actions are predetermined and do little to actually affect a real meaningful outcome. Like a literal bot.
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See it’s posts like these that speak more than just simply saying I want her to be fun. Thank you for going into detail about what you were displeased about.
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The analogy is pretty silly indeed but I didn’t come up with it.
That’s just one example really, Mercy has been consistently a good hero for now 12 seasons. Can’t say the same for the other supports, not by a long shot. So that alone is 100$. Again, this analogy is rather silly.
You want to separate it from Mercy’s state as a whole because it doesn’t paint the narrative you want to paint when this scenario is actually put into context. Taking things out of context is a logical fallacy, which my example clearly illustrated.
Nothing was taken from you because nothing belonged to you in the first place.
Not understanding it is a legitimate position to have to be honest.
I’m not arguing with you, I’m debating. It’s a public place designed to have debates (that’s what a forum is last time I checked). And I’m refuting your position by providing logical arguments and parallels through which I’m exposing your logical fallacy designed to paint an emotional narrative that’s false.
I’m not trying to insult you or argue with you. Again, I respect your opinion and you are entitled to it but that doesn’t make it right.
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If Mercy can be changed because she is “unfun” to play against, then she should damn well be changed to be “fun” to play for her players, because they spend more time on her than anyone else. A character should be fun to play for a majority of their players and balanced to play against.
It is just a matter of working out not only what the majority is.
But also, seeing the reasons why.
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Mercy wasn’t changed because she was “unfun” but because mass rez was an unhealthy mechanic and hide&rez was unintended strategy that exploited the mechanic.
Which is currently the case.
Really it seems simple enough. What part of it makes me wrong?
It doesn’t feel good to have less than what you originally had?
It feels a little bit better to get some of it back but it doesn’t feel good.
That’s all you need to know. That’s all that’s relevant. Forget it has anything to do with Mercy. It’s a situation where some is taken half is given back and that’s exactly what is happening that is upsetting some people.
You conflate the two of your own volition and claim it doesn’t make sense? When I specifically told you time and time again it is just a scenario posed in which loss and gain is shown. But then you go and say “nothing was taken from you because nothing belonged to you in the first place” In the scenario (which I said is separate to mercy) Money is being taken from me. Money that belongs to me. You have got be trolling at this point
Are you? I was referring to this statement:
I was asking this person to clarify what exactly they meant by that, because to me it reads like they believe “not having fun” cannot possibly be considered a legitimate concern; a sentiment I would strongly disagree with.
That’s why I was asking. I agree a character should never be left in an unbalanced state because people are having fun with it, but usually in that scenario their fun comes at the cost of those playing weaker characters. On the other hand though, if people are not having fun, it won’t matter to them if the game is balanced or not.
Long story short, I believe “not having fun” is a perfectly valid argument to be unhappy about the state of a game. This doesn’t imply if and how developers should react to that concern, it just means it is perfectly valid to voice it in my humble opinion.
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Complaining about Mercy no longer being fun to play is completely pointless. If you are not enjoying Mercy now, then you will never enjoy Mercy again. Blizzard will not make changes beyond tweaking numbers, and the changes you are so longing for are never going to happen. Providing constructive feedback is a waste of time.
I wish I could somehow wave a magic wand and make unhappy Mercy players realize that Mercy will not receive the changes you are hoping for. There is no need to discuss Mercy, it only brings hate and toxicity. But, I have no magic wand, and people like doing pointless things and wasting their time. So, the complaints will continue, and so will the hate, the threats, and the insults. Mercy players will always be hated, and unhappy Mercy players will always be unhappy because the change they are hoping for will never be.
You… really don’t know that though. You don’t know if the majority of people like how Mercy currently plays.
Besides… even if the people complaining are the minority… does that mean we should just tell them to go away and be quiet? No. That’s not fair, and won’t work anyway. (seriously the complains have been going for a year)
The best course of action would be to try to find a version of Mercy that doesn’t make people like you who like current Mercy upset and make people who don’t like current Mercy happier.
To that end… what is it about current Mercy that you like?
I’m on the other side of the fence on this… so I can tell you, that the parts of her I despise are the chain beams and the massive slow down on Resurrect.
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Dev update video.
Jeff literally uses the phrase disheartening. Mentions making Mercy more “fun” and “engaging”.
And Jeff mentions in the Mercy Rework Developer Update at 6:40 minutes in asking people on the receiving end if it is “fun to play against”.
They changed her without even trying to balance Mass Rez to help people playing against it, such as adding LOS and a cast time and removing invulnerability which literally took her from F-Tier to C-Tier.
Performance wise, Mass Rez was easy to counter and is why she spent so much time in F-tier, until invulnerability and even then it was still able to punish her by poor rez choices when she caused her team to die again by not thinking of enemy ults.
Not to mention people actually had to manage ults and not waste 3 ults on killing half a team. Which happens all too often these days.
But sure, Valkyrie is doing wonders for taking over and hand holding you as it tries to play her base kit for you, which is great if you can’t manage at using her base kit to avoid ults and damage and need constant regen instead of dodging yourself until regen kicks in after a time. And instead of learning how to juggle beams and prioritise, lets let chain beams do everything for you. SO ENGAGING.
I love going to the sky or behind a wall rather than getting to weave among the fight switching my beams between everyone because I am limited to a single beam and need to maximize my output by using developed skills and understanding of the game.
I love having resurrect choices simplified to “am i going to die if i do this?”.
That is so engaging and fun having the game sense stripped from your character every time you use anything but the original base kit and GA.
Except we don’t know this to be true, but we do know at the very least that Valkyrie is literally a “let me do everything you would normally be doing for you button” which is pretty UNENGAGING on an already mechanically easy hero.
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There is no point in defending Mercy’s current state, or wanting it changed. Mercy is what she is, and while minor balance changes may happen she’s never going to change significantly again. Discussing any of it is completely pointless and just feeds the hate festering on the forums.