Mercy wasn’t changed because she was “unfun” but because mass rez was an unhealthy mechanic and hide&rez was unintended strategy that exploited the mechanic.
Which is currently the case.
Really it seems simple enough. What part of it makes me wrong?
It doesn’t feel good to have less than what you originally had?
It feels a little bit better to get some of it back but it doesn’t feel good.
That’s all you need to know. That’s all that’s relevant. Forget it has anything to do with Mercy. It’s a situation where some is taken half is given back and that’s exactly what is happening that is upsetting some people.
You conflate the two of your own volition and claim it doesn’t make sense? When I specifically told you time and time again it is just a scenario posed in which loss and gain is shown. But then you go and say “nothing was taken from you because nothing belonged to you in the first place” In the scenario (which I said is separate to mercy) Money is being taken from me. Money that belongs to me. You have got be trolling at this point
Are you? I was referring to this statement:
I was asking this person to clarify what exactly they meant by that, because to me it reads like they believe “not having fun” cannot possibly be considered a legitimate concern; a sentiment I would strongly disagree with.
That’s why I was asking. I agree a character should never be left in an unbalanced state because people are having fun with it, but usually in that scenario their fun comes at the cost of those playing weaker characters. On the other hand though, if people are not having fun, it won’t matter to them if the game is balanced or not.
Long story short, I believe “not having fun” is a perfectly valid argument to be unhappy about the state of a game. This doesn’t imply if and how developers should react to that concern, it just means it is perfectly valid to voice it in my humble opinion.
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Complaining about Mercy no longer being fun to play is completely pointless. If you are not enjoying Mercy now, then you will never enjoy Mercy again. Blizzard will not make changes beyond tweaking numbers, and the changes you are so longing for are never going to happen. Providing constructive feedback is a waste of time.
I wish I could somehow wave a magic wand and make unhappy Mercy players realize that Mercy will not receive the changes you are hoping for. There is no need to discuss Mercy, it only brings hate and toxicity. But, I have no magic wand, and people like doing pointless things and wasting their time. So, the complaints will continue, and so will the hate, the threats, and the insults. Mercy players will always be hated, and unhappy Mercy players will always be unhappy because the change they are hoping for will never be.
You… really don’t know that though. You don’t know if the majority of people like how Mercy currently plays.
Besides… even if the people complaining are the minority… does that mean we should just tell them to go away and be quiet? No. That’s not fair, and won’t work anyway. (seriously the complains have been going for a year)
The best course of action would be to try to find a version of Mercy that doesn’t make people like you who like current Mercy upset and make people who don’t like current Mercy happier.
To that end… what is it about current Mercy that you like?
I’m on the other side of the fence on this… so I can tell you, that the parts of her I despise are the chain beams and the massive slow down on Resurrect.
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Dev update video.
Jeff literally uses the phrase disheartening. Mentions making Mercy more “fun” and “engaging”.
And Jeff mentions in the Mercy Rework Developer Update at 6:40 minutes in asking people on the receiving end if it is “fun to play against”.
They changed her without even trying to balance Mass Rez to help people playing against it, such as adding LOS and a cast time and removing invulnerability which literally took her from F-Tier to C-Tier.
Performance wise, Mass Rez was easy to counter and is why she spent so much time in F-tier, until invulnerability and even then it was still able to punish her by poor rez choices when she caused her team to die again by not thinking of enemy ults.
Not to mention people actually had to manage ults and not waste 3 ults on killing half a team. Which happens all too often these days.
But sure, Valkyrie is doing wonders for taking over and hand holding you as it tries to play her base kit for you, which is great if you can’t manage at using her base kit to avoid ults and damage and need constant regen instead of dodging yourself until regen kicks in after a time. And instead of learning how to juggle beams and prioritise, lets let chain beams do everything for you. SO ENGAGING.
I love going to the sky or behind a wall rather than getting to weave among the fight switching my beams between everyone because I am limited to a single beam and need to maximize my output by using developed skills and understanding of the game.
I love having resurrect choices simplified to “am i going to die if i do this?”.
That is so engaging and fun having the game sense stripped from your character every time you use anything but the original base kit and GA.
Except we don’t know this to be true, but we do know at the very least that Valkyrie is literally a “let me do everything you would normally be doing for you button” which is pretty UNENGAGING on an already mechanically easy hero.
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There is no point in defending Mercy’s current state, or wanting it changed. Mercy is what she is, and while minor balance changes may happen she’s never going to change significantly again. Discussing any of it is completely pointless and just feeds the hate festering on the forums.
I realize it is probably pointless, but I’m not ready to give up yet.
Perhaps I did misread the situation. From my point it looked like you were going to ask if fun should dictate balance just to state that’s why she was reverted. I apologize for an incorrect assumption.
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The part where you simplify things and take them out of context for starters.
Depends what we are talking about - if we are talking about cancer, it’s certainly better to have less than what you originally had. Same with any other disease.
Again depends on what we are talking about.
That’s not how it works. You can break down and simplify anything to the bare bones minimum.
Again, what are we talking about? And if we are talking about Mercy why are we not taking into account her full state? You are going through mental loops and walking in circles.
And I pointed that out that this is not the case when we talk about Mercy which I clearly illustrated.
Why? I’m clearly explaining everything to you and refuting your points one by one systematically.
How do we measure this “not having fun” metric? And when do we deem it necessary and when do we deem it obsolete? What is the criteria?
So let’s buff and make Mercy OP again because some people are not having fun playing a not OP character? I fail to see that as a credible position.
Again, how do we measure this? What is the criteria? And what is the solution - to make a character OP again because a certain group no longer finds their hero fun since it’s no longer OP?
By all means, I respect your opinion and you are entitled to it. That doesn’t make it right however. Balance should not come at the expense of fun. I’m not saying fun is not a factor, it is. But it’s not a factor when balance is concerned since fun is not a reliable metric, it’s abstract and subjective.
Based on my own analysis and how the character feels I think that is the case. Based on the data I see, I think that is the case. It is my opinion of course and solely my opinion alone. I don’t claim to speak for anyone else other than myself.
I’m not saying that. But a character shouldn’t be made OP because a certain group demands it - all of the suggestions so far on the forums that I’ve seen make Mercy OP plus mass rez is a bad and unhealthy mechanic.
I don’t think that’s possible. In life, one side always wins. That’s just the reality of it. The current Mercy is the best possible synthesis so far in my opinion.
Everything really, she is not OP, she is not a must-pick. It’s no longer required one of the supports to be Mercy 100% of the time in every situation. She is impactful and she takes more skill to play then pre-valkyrie Mercy. She requires team work and I love the mobility and Valkyrie is just an amazing ultimate. The supports currently feel awesome.
Jeff has to use politically correct language and sugar-coat things. It’s the same reason why he spent 4 minutes talking about how we should not expect a new map. Things have become so politically correct that a dev has to spend 4 minutes making sure that people clearly understand that a new map is not going to be announced, so there’s not a PR nightmare of people talking about where’s the new map and how they are entitled to a new map etc.
Mercy was never F-tier, this a myth. And mass rez had no counter whatsoever, pressing a button wasn’t counter-able. Don’t propagate false myths please.
Sorry but Valkyrie is rocket science compared to pressing a button for instant rewards.
That’s not how resurrect works and I don’t have any issues using it whatsoever.
Ah Titanium’s thread again - stop posting this like some sort of gospel. Mercy requires more skill now than before. Rezzing now requires skill. Pressing a button didn’t. Mercy is fine.
Money has the connotations of being a good thing. That’s why I used it in my example. Can you stop, this is actually frustrating me how you continue to make it about something it’s not.
See I’ve not seen that, but I’m not of the opinion that any suggestion that involves mass resurrect is automatically OP. If that is your view point I can see how you got there though.
Ok… was looking for something a bit more specific, and some of this I don’t agree with, but I think I can work with this.
Ok so… you love the mobility and teamwork. Cool, I like Mercy’s mobility and teamplay too. So… GA stays, flight stays. What’s your opinion on the chain beams though? Like… would you be opposed to them being 50 HPS on the chains and 70-80 HPS on the main beam?
Honestly I will be fine with anything as long as mass rez doesn’t come back. It was the most unhealthy mechanic in the game bar none. The whole game was basically who can find the enemy hiding Mercy first and kill her and then kill the enemy team before she returns from spawn so that she doesn’t rez and literally invalidate the whole team’s efforts with the press of a button.
And this brings me to another myth - people say Mercy was an economy checker but so many of the maps are so small enough to the point that even if you killed Mercy first she had time to come back and rez invalidating everything.
Current Mercy is fine, with the buff incoming she would be even better.
Then why is she getting buffed? This is illogical thinking based off your personal opinion that she is fine.
I don’t think current Mercy is trash and F-tier like some people here clearly think. I can make her work no problem. What’s illogical about that? If the devs want to buff her I will support their decision because their decision is actually based on data and analysis.
I disagree with your points here. He never said mercy was his property, it’s just a metaphor for the situation. Fun is subjective, but it doesn’t mean it has to be taken out of the equation. Sure, it can’t necessarily be balanced, but fun factor is a actual thing. I can agree with the OP that the ultimate on paper has a lot going on, but in reality, it reality doesn’t seem to. You pop the ultimate, fly around healing multiple people (or damage boosting), and rez isn’t buffed by the ultimate anymore but you can maybe get a rez off. Not having a lot of things going on isn’t a bad thing, but the ultimate on paper seems so much better than it does in game. Then again, these things are more opinion based than anything anyways.
Your basis for she is fine is because you say so. It’s illogical cause it lacks clear sense and reasoning.
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I can totally understand that point of view.
Fun fact, not all of us who aren’t happy with Mercy are demanding Mass Resurrect back. Like that mini suggestion I posed to you? That would make her much more palatable for me to play and apparently not make her any worse for you.
That’s the sort of changes I want Blizzard to look into… because it seems like a win win to me.
One could argue that that’s an issue with the 2cp map design, but I get it. It’s a bit easier to change the one healer who really abused that than fix… how many 2cp maps are there?
Mercy was a good hero for exactly 6 seasons: seasons 6-11.
Zenyatta has been a consistently good hero since Season 1, with the exceptions of Season 3 and 4. Lucio was a consistently good hero until Season 7. Moira didn’t exist until Season 7. Brigitte didn’t exist in competitive until Season 10.
The only long-term hero whose time in the sun was actually pretty limited is Ana. But both times Ana has had her time in the sun (Seasons 3 & 4 and now) resulted in her completely outclassing almost every other support. At least in online ladder.
Mercy was trash tier until Season 6. So this is objectively false.
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I’d be grateful to even get some of my money back
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