Valkyrie Playstyle

General Discussion
352

:rofl: At this point, it’s becoming humorous, I mean how basic do I need to break down my argument for you to understand it.

Here, let me simplify it for you even more:

When creating a design for a character, the developers look at abilities, how those abilities interact with one another and with other heroes etc. Does the character require mechanical skill or not? And other things (Don’t want to go to complex so I don’t lose you :smiley: )

Still with me?

So they create a character like Mercy which has certain skills etc. and they track the character based on the above mentioned thing, plus statistics etc. (again don’t wanna go to complex so I don’t lose you).

Now, Pros look at the same things (mind you it’s the lesser picture since they don’t have all the data) and create a view of their own.

The community on the other hand views things in their own way based on their information that they have (which is limited and also less complete than Pros because lack of skill can interfere with objectivity, that’s another topic, again don’t want to lose you).

Still with me?

So the developers basically stated that when they think about balance they think about what each side says - the Devs, the Pros and the community. :rofl:

Still with me?

And what do all three parts of this trifecta look at when discussing balance: the character’s kit, mechanical skill or lack thereof, statistics, performance etc. (Don’t wanna go into too much detail as well).

So one does not invalidate the other, it’s just three sides looking at different factors, and one of these factors is mechanical skill.

Is this simple enough for you? :rofl: :smiley: :joy:

353

Yes, because that person originally was talking to someone else, who was spamming this thread by going off-topic.

Plarpoon called them out on it. And you tried to defend the spammer with your own offtopic response, trying to say that the false flagging was justified.

So, since none of this has to do with the OP, in effect, you are also contributing towards going off topic.

Please stay on topic. Thanks. :smile:

Once again.

You do realize that mechanical skill is not one of the parts of that balance triangle right? So objectively, you have made an incorrect conclusion.

Your claim originally was trying to prove that mechanical skill impacts balance. The point people are trying to have you understand, is that the two do not directly correlate with one another in any way.

The mechanical skill in a hero does not directly affect how balanced or unbalanced they are. This is why we have things like Ana who requires lots of mechanical skill, but was generally outclassed by Mercy in terms of pick and win rates, who does not require nearly as much mechanical skill.

You can have a hero who is both unbalanced and requires a lot of mechanical skill, and a hero who is unbalanced and does not require lots of mechanical skill. And vice versa. One does not “impact” the other.

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls :blue_heart:

354

Each side of the balance triangle looks at these things you bozo :rofl:

The reason why Mercy outclassed Ana was because her output was greater than Ana for less amount of skill required. Which is literally why Mercy was broken and needed a nerf and why Ana needed a buff. You cannot have a hero with no mechanical skill have bigger output than a hero with mechanical skill. :rofl:

Yes, that’s correct. But it’s also not my argument. :rofl:

I’m done with this. You both are either literally playing stupid or just don’t get it. :rofl:

355

That last part quite frankly, is an idiotic and elitist argument, but I’m going to humor it anyway.

So what is the relationship between skill and consistency? How is this assertion:

At all related to this assertion:

If you outright admit that:

The argument is incoherent. You are saying that A = B, and C = D, and then from there trying to argue that A = D while outright admitting that B =/= C.

Not only are you not supporting the transition required for you argument to make sense, but you are actively destroying it:

Humoring this too. Zero is a number. A variable being equal to zero does not mean that the variable no longer exists in the equation.

Now you have outright taken the opposite position.

Sorry, but it’s hard to figure out what your argument is when you literally take one position, destroy the support for that, and then take the opposite position:

Here you assert that character A, who requires less mechanical skill than character B, would be picked more often than character B because A is more consistent than B.

And here you assert that character B, who requires more mechanical skill than character A, would be more consistent than character A.

I mean, if you’re going to pretend you’re simplifying an argument, at least don’t undermine it and the defect to the polar opposite of your previous position. That doesn’t simplify an argument. It just makes it clear that you have no idea what you are talking about.

There you go flipping on your prior assertions… and they’re in the same paragraph too.

I mean, come on. You’re not even trying at this point.

There is no logic there.

That is outright false, speaking as someone who played both Pharah and Junkrat a lot before I ever played Mercy.

4 Likes
356

So holding M1 is something you consider skill. :grinning:

Because holding M1 isn’t a skill. You see I’m very specific with what I say mate and where I said. :rofl: Skill =/= consistency in the case of Mercy, holding M1 is not a skill :rofl: I mean you literally have to hold M1 to be consistent. Unless you are an absolute mind-mindbogglingly stupid (not you, talking in theory, don’t false report me) holding M1 is going to be consistent 100% of the time.

Now with Ana skill matters, the more mechanical skill she has, the more consistent she is going to be. You still with me? Or do I need to simplify it even more? :rofl:

Ooookay, I don’t see any relevance here. Unless I gain you think holding M1 is a skill in which case this conversation went through the window (I mean it already did but you entertain me hence why I keep coming).

Again, I’m very specific with what I say and how I say it. My statement was in regard to Mercy, not a general statement.

I guess you are just not smart enough to fall basic logical arguments. I dunno what more I can say or how to simplify it further. But I know you are not stupid, you are just looking at breaking down my argument to bits that you can than interpret in your own way and twist to “win”. :rofl: I’m fairly certain at this point you are a woman with your debate tactics (don’t report me if you are a turtle, sorry for assuming your gender in advance).

They both require about the same mechanical skill, but the example is still not relevant or applicable to mine, and you miss that part conveniently.:smiley:

357

Oh I’m sorry, are you resorting to insults now with people that disagree with you? You are weakening your argument when you do that. +1 for the opposition. :smirk:

Mercy was overpowered, and Ana was underpowered. Both of them were balanced out with nerfs and buffs respectively. Once again, has nothing to do with how mechanically skilled they were. You are once again, failing to understand the point people have made plain to you.

Oh? So how do you explain 1-star Reinhardt being a must pick over 3-star Zarya and Hammond? Sorry, your claim is objectively false. :blush:

Oh? So I assume this post you made of

Never existed, and now you are saying

Glad to know that you now agree with me after the fact. :blush:

“When I no longer have facts to give, I’ll throw insults and brush off facts. Because I can’t defend my points anymore. Afterall, my opinions are fact and anyone who disagrees with my opinion are wrong and don’t get it.”

Good attempt! Come back anytime you need us to explain anything else to you regarding balance. We’ll be here. :wink:

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls :blue_heart:

358

Oh boi, Undertone is getting bashed (calmly) by someone who hasn’t reported his for “IRL threat” (even tho I apologized, but he seemingly doesn’t remember that part). Guess he can’t pull the “I will completely ignore you because you misunderstood” card (even tho humans can make mistakes)

Just asking, have you ever been into programming? Because his logic is actually right and yours… isn’t? :confused:
Also calling people “not smart” is not nice.
(Now he will pull the “U reported me for IRL threat” card, just watch)

359

Do you genuinely think that all mercy’s difficulty is on pressing 1 mouse button? because if that was the case you could say the same of Winston for example

here you are basically saying that if i stand still and press M1 i have consistency with Mercy, if that was the case don’t you think that Blizzard wouldn’t have gave her so much mobility to play with? maybe that mobility serves her to actually be consistent and efficient.

360

Bozo is a playful way to call somebody silly, no? English is not my native language.
If it’s an actual offense that wasn’t the intention. My bad.

Has everything to do with that. You cannot have a hero that has high mechanical skill as requirement be outperformed by a hero that has zero mechanical skill as a requirement. That’s bad balancing.

What? What stars are you talking about?

Those are two separate arguments entirely. :rofl:

361

I’m comparing specific parts of the kits.

No, I’m saying there isn’t room for mistake. If you hold M1 you heal, period. The same isn’t applicable to Ana.

I mean do you guys even read what I write? Like at all? :rofl:

362

You cannot compare specific parts, a character is a system made of many parts. To be consistent you don’t need to just press 1, you actually need to do many other specific operations together with it. Take a widow for example, if you shoot but you don’t aim you are not making kills, her skill is to actually move the mouse and click on foreheads. Same goes for Mercy, if you press M1 without doing all the other parts of her kit you are not consistent you.

Do you get my point?

363

Oh-boy, call in all your Discord pals. Send in the reinforcements. :rofl:

364

Oof, all are “offline” now. Could you be so kind to be an a*shole a little later when the hivemind can all flag you? Thanks ^^;

/sarcasm

365

Reinhardt.

Look at his difficulty rating. He is a 1 star hero, like Mercy. This means that mechanically, he is not a demanding hero to learn and is easy to pick up and play.

However…

https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

Reinhardt outperforms all the other tanks in the tier, including the more mechanically skilled ones, and EVERY other hero. Do you want to explain how this is possible when you previously have said:

" You cannot have a hero that has high mechanical skill as requirement be outperformed by a hero that has zero mechanical skill as a requirement."

? I’m genuinely confused, because by your logic, Rein should be the worse of the tanks and most of the other heroes, since he’s the least mechanically demanding - and yet, he is the best of them right now. [Citation needed] :slight_smile:

Oh? What was your other argument? I was pretty sure that this was your main accusation with your feelings about Mercy. Mechanical skilled heroes should be outperforming the less-mechanically skilled heroes right? :slight_smile:

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls :blue_heart:

366

This is a false analogy. Here’s a better one. You can have two cars - one is on automatic and the other one is on manual. Naturally, the one on manual performs better if you have the necessary skill to drive. The automatic one however is better if you don’t have the necessary skill to drive it. The problem was that Mercy outperformed Ana substantially.

367

you’re accidentally thinking that fun and mercy, and balance and mercy go together, they don’t. play a skillful healer (except brig)
Love: anyone with a brain

368

Your Mercy moves automatically and performs magic saves on her own?

369

Are you talking about stars in the Blizzard hero select thing? I mean really? Okay, I think I’m done with you. :rofl:

370

Nah, she heals automatically, just need to hold M1 (hold the gas). Ana has to heal manually (need to aim and press M1 / change gears and press gas). Makes sense?

371

Undertone in a nutshell: :rofl:

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