Yes. Because being viable is being in top 6.
Mercy is like a pizza delivery girl but for healing. Gets anywhere fast where needed.
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LUL okay. Ummm… Well there’s nothing to be gained here lol. You carry on, I disagree with you thinking only the top 6 are “viable.” Top 6 are “meta” sure, but viable? Goes beyond that.
But hey, if that’s how you’re gonna look at it. More power to ya!
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You also forgot, that situation, where Mercy is viable, requires DPS, that far outskills everyone else there. It’s not even supposed to happen with proper matchmaking.
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No. Maybe for you. But I’m pretty competent when playing Mercy. I don’t require my DPS to be some sort of GM smurf in gold in order to pull value out of Mercy.
You do you.
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Quit lying already. You just need DPS from above tier. Which, still, isn’t something you supposed to find.
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I’m not lying.
I’m sorry you deal with a lot of player issues wheen you play Mercy. That sucks. Maybe do some VOD review?
Your problems aren’t anything I can help you with over the forums. Take care now.
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Let’s evaluate this then, shall we?
I’ve only said;
- Balance and satisfactions are two separate entities that should be taken into consideration for kit changes.
- Balance is related to performance.
- If it’s unfun to play a character because a particular meta hardcounters that character, the degree of fun is a) based upon balance, and b) a separate kind of “fun” that is NOT measured in/related to satisfaction.
- Satisfaction is measurable fun in a kit, and can be measured in a game dev theory of creativity, expression, and excitement. All of these measurements are comparative to other heroes, Mercy’s pre-rework kit, Mercy’s first rework iteration, and Mercy’s current status, which average out to a baseline starting point that can be the foundation of a consensus (something you’ve said doesn’t and can’t exist)…
- Expression is not how you or I specifically like something, expression is having more options available to you that are unique and can allow you to sculpt your own unique gameplay
- Mercy’s current status has fewer options than her first rework iteration and pre-rework status, options which resulted in tangible outcomes, and has her base kit reduced
- Flight from Valkyrie is not an equalizer because flight is tangibly useless by itself and must be paired with another element of interactivity.
- Going Battle Mercy with the unlimited ammo, in Mercy’s current state, is now a disservice to your teammates and not the best use of your ultimate (the opportunity cost is so great that it’s not a particularly good example of an expansion of expression)
- Uniqueness is an element that is vastly dampened by the fact that Valkyrie chain beams are a duplicate version of something that already exists. Ubiquity ruins expression, copied abilities no longer mean that a character has a carved out specialty local only to themselves.
- (NEW, I haven’t said this before, but I’m adding it here anyway because it’s fitting) Bunnyhop is something that they added to her base kit upon discovery of Valkyrie, but has since been added to her base kit proper as a mechanic completely separate from Valkyrie (it’s no longer possible to execute with Valkyrie active). This comes as a separate change that is not relevant to this discussion since I’m strictly targeting Valkyrie and the value of the ultimate relative to satisfaction. It may have been added following the rework, but it is NOT an element because of the rework.
- Mercy’s current status has fewer options than her first rework iteration and pre-rework status, options which resulted in tangible outcomes, and has her base kit reduced
- Creativity is not measured by decision making, creativity is the propensity to deal with new/existing problems with the expanded toolset for expression yourself
- because her current status has had new tools removed until only one new tool with a direct impact remains (flight is not a factor here, chainbeams is), it’s min-maxable and everyone plays her the exact same… double whammy to expression, and all new and existing problems are addressed the same 3 ways
- pre-emptive to a teamfight activation for damage boost (is this better you pedant?)
- reactive to a teamfight activation for heals
- battle Mercy, which is already known as a disservice to your team, to be used as a fallback
- because her current status has had new tools removed until only one new tool with a direct impact remains (flight is not a factor here, chainbeams is), it’s min-maxable and everyone plays her the exact same… double whammy to expression, and all new and existing problems are addressed the same 3 ways
- Excitement is not a preference (just because you prefer something that has more actions per minute, does not mean it’s exciting… it just means you find excitement out of mundanity), it’s an ephemerality that is generated from a potential to create an unexpected outcome, and the subsequent disappointment that comes from the failure of execution/delivery.
- Battle Mercy is the only thing currently tied to a potentially unexpected outcome, but it’s not a letdown if you fail to deliver on it… it does not yield as much disappointment as a failed Primal Rage or missed 6-player Deadeye does
- Initial rework had Fighter Jet Mercy which was excelled far better than the current state, which was already discussed twice before to be a disservice to teammates, thereby only relegating it as a fallback option
- Launch Mercy’s Mass Rez, Tempo Rezzing, and Solo Rez were all gambles, which inherently have potentially unexpected outcomes attached to them. This makes it exponentially harder
- Expression is not how you or I specifically like something, expression is having more options available to you that are unique and can allow you to sculpt your own unique gameplay
- A hero can be balanced, hardcountered in a current meta, and satisfying simultaneously… a hero can also be imbalanced, not countered in the current meta, and unsatisfying, and any other combination of these three items… they aren’t mutually exclusive to each other.
And finally, because of all of the above;
- Mercy’s current state is measurably worse than her initial rework state, pre-rework kit, and to other heroes in terms of satisfaction, not balance, that it should prompt another tackle of a rebalance or a whole rework altogether.
Nowhere did I ever say that she was poor currently in the meta, you’re the one that brought up meta by bringing false equivalences with “Tracer is countered in GOATs, rework Tracer”.
Nowhere did I ever assert my personal feelings on the matter (except when I said I couldn’t care less if she was F-Tier). Nothing I said has been about feelings, but rather about observations…
This is not “I feel, therefore I must complain”. But rather, “I’ve remained neutral, gathered information, made comparisons, and discovered that there is something to complain about.”
You cannot argue against this with anecdotes, because this isn’t about personal experience… NOWHERE am I including anecdotes which open the door to disprove something.
Even my above statement of;
"it does not yield as much disappointment as a failed Primal Rage or missed 6-player Deadeye does "
… is not an anecdote, because this is a statement that is generally accepted as true.
Furthermore, I haven’t even given my two cents on what Mercy could be reworked into, but the resistance and condescension you’ve committed to seems to indicate to me that you’re under the impression that I want to make her imbalanced… when I only want to target her unsatisfactory state.
There’s practically nothing here to tear down… 90% of this is context, comparison, and information.
I’ve GIVEN the criteria, I don’t give a damn about your preferences and anecdotes, and there are ways to yield measurable satisfaction over the current state.
How hard is it to recognize this? Do you want to actually contribute to the conversation? Or do you just like to have-contributed to the conversations?
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You can’t get disappointment from failing ult, if using it in general is disappointing.
Yes. Taken into consideration. I would then argue balance takes a higher priority due to the fact that balance effects all 12 members of any given game, where as satisfaction will vary wildly between those 12 players and that if it’s just in regards to a single player in that game then it carries little weight.
Your arguments in regards to this would be more compelling if it was a PVE or single player orientated game. Unfortunately, it’s not.
Yes.
Wait, what? So if you’re not satisfied etc etc then how are you having fun? What is this “seperate kind of ‘fun’ that is NOT measured in/related to satisfaction.’”? Pretty important for you to define that “separate kind of” don’t you think?
What’s the standard here? My standard? Your standard? Bronze tier QP Mercy standard? Pro standard? All of us will find different things “satisfying” so what is the standard of measurement we’re using to determine the level of satisfaction? If you can’t establish a universal unit of measurement (like inches vs cm and all that) then how can we agree on anything?
But people experience wildly different things playing different heroes. I can list off heroes I enjoy playing, that’ll be very different from your own list, or any one else’s… So… Again, what’s this standard of measure you’re working ooff of?
It can be argued there are more expressions available in current Valk Mercy than there were in Mercy 1.0. But there will be disagreements on this etc etc. Again… You act like there’s some universally agreed upon standard or unit of measurement and there isn’t. Man I’m starting to realize it’s going to take a lot to walk through all this stuff you’ve said… Wew…
Disagrree. Mass Rez depends on your team mates being dead and you have limited control over the circumstances that lead to another player’s death. Current Mercy has available to her MANY ways to express herself that Mercy 1.0 didn’t, via GA tech, via E Rez, via the options given in Valk.
Again, you act like what you are saying is somehow fact when really you’re just listing off your opinion on stuff. Feelings. That’s all.
Huh? 3D mobility is useless by itself? So I guess we don’t care about Tracer blinking all over the place and “OH MOBILITY SO OP IN THIS GAME.”
UGH.
You are saying stuff that is soooooooooooo in your feels and just your personal opinion and stating it like it’s fact.
Yo I’m going to skip a lot of this tbh, I was going to go point by point but this is ridiculous…
Hm? Bunnyhop tech, in it’s bug form before it was made a feature, was not a Valkyrie exclusive mechanic. ???
Valkyrie is legit the definition of an expanded toolset… Oh boy…
Flight is a factor, who are you to say it isn’t? My God. The Rez elements were removed from Valk, yes. As it was broken. Obviously.
Who are you to tell me what excites me and what doesn’t? Lmao… Mass Rez didn’t ever provide me with an “unexpected outcome.” I expected it all. It was easy to read…
Yo. ALL THIS STUFF IS SUBJECTIVE. You see that, ya?
Legit basically everything you said had everything to do with personal experience, or personal dictation. You assumed you had some like standard in which to measure excitement, satisfaction, and all kinds of stuff, and you clearly don’t. I was hoping for more than this. You basically hard defaulted into feelings and individual perspective.
What have you contributed to this conversation? Honestly. Can you list any contributions outside of playing yourself off as some sort of arbitrator for things you don’t seem to understand? This stuff about “measurable satisfaction” and such is all noise. You have no way of establishing the measure in which to quantify any individuals satisfaction. I have shown CLEARLY that my satisfaction is removed from your system of “measurement.”
Yo kid, what happend to your empathy? 
Seems you’re the one lacking now. Funny how that happens.
I don’t care about your personal satisfaction.
I care about viability. For me, and A LOT of other people, Mercy being viable is what is satisfying. Not having some gimped trash tier Mass Rez ult that can only give me some “feelings” when it comes to mid tier and QP play. F that.
Viability > Your feelings. Multiplayer PVP based game. Take your measurable satisfaction noise off to some single player or PVE orientated game. It is actually applicable there.
Good try.
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I did. Hence the criteria.
You’re refusing to accept the criteria, which is literally the REST OF THAT POST. That’s your perogative, not mine.
Movement is useless by itself, it MUST be paired with something else to be valuable. Case in point, Tracer blinking all over the place would not matter if she didn’t have damage associated with it. She’d only offer contest potential, which is situational.
Bunnyhop’s initial form was literally tied to Valkyrie, where you’d activate it, press jump while GA, and slingshot past. When Valkyrie ended, if you slingshotted off the map, it’d leave you stranded.
Which I just explained, repeatedly, why the expanded toolset doesn’t yield much.
Repeatedly claiming something is something else, doesn’t make it something else.
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Yo dude. This criteria of yours is seeming hard for me to nail down, ngl. Might be my fault, or yours, who knows.
But let’s do us both a favor and just give me the run down on the criteria. Not in like big paragraphs and numerous bullet points. Just a simple 1 2 3 single sentence a piece sort of thing.
That’ll make this a lot easier.
Then I’ll respond punch for punch with whatever you said above, I haven’t even read it yet. Just give me the criteria in a simple simple form. Cuz this stuff is starting to annoy me rn.
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Screw it, I have an active mind and I’m kind of bored rn. I’ll respond to what you said without understanding the criteria fully. PLEASE THOUGH, explain to me the criteria, as I can’t bridge this gap in understanding between us without knowing that.
Tracer blinking around the map constantly never outputting damage is a lot of movement that isn’t paired with anything. Mercy hitting Q flying to the skybox and then grabbing themselves some cup noodles or whatever is also a lot of movement doing anything.
That doesn’t mean we’re not going to start arguing like mobility isn’t a HUGEEEEEEE deal in this game, are we? What you do with that mobility is a player issue, if you just use it to blink off cliffs, into walls, and die with recall up, well alright then. Doesn’t mean Tracer is bad. Does blinking around endlessly give you mad funz feelz? Not necessarily.
Mercy’s mobility in Valk is really just top tier. She is the most mobile hero in the game at that point. And we just gonna act like that isn’t a big deal? Just pfft f freeflight it’s useless LUL?
Come on…
Hmm… Can you link me to proof of this? Like I believe you, I just hadn’t heard of it being a Valk necessary sort of thing. There was all kinds of funky physics and stuff with the engine during a lot of changes. Hell, even the recent one with how Mercy’s rez didn’t get slow effect due to changes in how in flight entities in the engine interacted with game etc etc…
I just never have heard of the original bug version of bunnyhop being tied to Valk. By tied I mean you had to be Valking in order to do it. I’d always just heard of it refered to regarding general GA use, not Valk-GA specific.
Uh… I disagree. The expanded toolset yields a LOT imo. Not that it can’t b e adjusted, but underselling it’s value doesn’t help the conversation.
I’m trying to be pretty accurate about what I claim and how I assess things. I admit, as I did above, clearly when I don’t understand something.
Have you done the same?
OH AND PS: Please just don’t even worry about this post. Just give me the criteria summary. Rn that is the major obstacle in me understanding where you’re coming from. I stand by everything I said where I feel your view is applicable to PVE and single player orientated games but really has no place in the balancing and adjustment of a multiplayer PVP game where other individual players, with their own motives, enjoyments, senses of satisfaction and excitement, are the ones who provide you with your game play experience. Unlike some Raid Boss that was designed to be a certain way etc etc.
If I gotta feel for you, I gotta feel for everyone. Only fair.
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And in case of Mercy, it’s paired with 60 hps or 30% damage boost, which we used to have without ult. Considering that she already has mobility with GA, adding even more sounds like a waste of ult.
Probably. It makes sense though. Or at least it does to me.
I do. I see numerous ways that Mercy’s current kit is flawed. Whether they be ways her kit departs from the norm in ways that are just bad for the player, or things about it that are just… bad in general, I see a lot of flaws with Mercy’s kit.
The one upside is that most could be addressed by small changes that won’t change her play style much if at all. However there will need to be changes that are more than just fiddling with numbers. +10 HPs on her main beam isn’t going to cut it.
It probably would harm her coordinated viability. That said, you have to remember two things. Firstly, the vast majority of people you’ll run into on the forums have never and will never play in a coordinated setting where Mercy 1.0 was garbage. Secondly, there is definitely a group who all they want is to have fun playing Mercy and is more than willing to trade some, if not all, of her viability in coordinated play for a more fun experience.
I partially agree with you on this. Ignoring Baptiste for the moment because I’m not exactly sure where he’ll land in the meta… Mercy is practically the only support who wants absolutely nothing to do with deathballing.
However… they should be at least open to compromising a little. Why? Well let me explain by talking about the Street Fighter franchise. That franchise actually had perfect balance and perfect viability across all characters starting out. They did this in pretty much the only way you can have it… by having 2 characters with the exact same moveset. However, over the years they purposely broke their perfect balance. Why? Because only 2 characters that are clones of each other won’t keep players entertained. So… they added more unique characters and broke their balance.
Balance and viability is important, but it is NOT more important than players having fun with the game. Simply put, you can have the most balanced game in the universe, but if no one finds it entertaining, it does not matter at all… because no players will play it.
Oh and on the off chance you decide to fire back with “But FFirebrandd, balance is more important because having Tracer with 500 hp would be super fun for the Tracer but it would kill the game, so balance is more important.” Don’t do it. Stop. Obviously… in the case of one character being wildly OP, it is a problem because it is severely damaging the fun of anyone NOT on that hero. Nobody liked Moth Meta for exactly this reason.
In my view, a hero who is “Balanced but not fun” is honestly in a much MUCH worse position than one who is underpowered but still fun.
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I am fairly convinced that mouse and keyboard makes aiming a little more fluid than a controller. Otherwise there would have not been a discussion regarding mouse and keyboard on console being considered cheating (I think Blizzard weighed in on this stating it as cheating too). Due to different input capabilities the heroes play differently and some heroes become easier to operate than others. Mercy, specifically, is one of those heroes that requires no aiming for the core part of her kit (counting her gun as a side-part of her kit). Therefore I do not think your opinions regarding Mercy transfers to the PC experience of playing Mercy. Therefore I will treat your future posts regarding Mercy in which you do not differentiate between console and PC as irrelevant, and I will make sure to remind people that you are a console player to make sure they interpret your post with that context in mind.
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Gold is a console player? That… answers so many questions… mostly regarding his views on Mercy in general and Valkyrie in particular.
Side note for you Qwazi, would a rework like this one bring you back into the game?
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Exceptionally well said, this post basically mimics, what every other pro support player has said regarding Mercy currently.
I hate all the delusionaal players, that look at no stats, dont think rationally and simply look at pickrate, (not even the winrates closely linked to those pickrates too). It is such a meme at this point, how many times “Mercy mains” have cried, " She is gonna be useless/she is useless etc, when it took this amount of nerfs, to get actual good players to tell you that she is in a pretty balanced good state now.
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How is it a niche, to support the biggest playable part of this game aka, the DPS role, just cause it is trash right now and goats have been dominant, Mercy is one of the most synergizing supports. She has all hitscans basically, many of the projectiles and others, she can still function in certain comps with tanks etc as well.
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It’s niche, because DPS are most independent role, and don’t need healers most of the time. It’s tanks, who need healers the most.
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