Unpopular opinion: Mercy's viability

[Quest-11845]

Excellent. This is what I wanted. Some actual substance to sharpen my teeth on instead of “BUT YOU DON’T CARE ABOUT MY FEELS, QUEST!!!”

Let’s go.

You literally said that my points are not up for debate, repeatedly ignored my statements when I said you could concretely describe satisfaction with legitimate game theory, and one-by-one wrote a checklist of retorts that don’t actually address any of my points but your imagined version of my points. You continue to regurgitate what you’ve already have said when I’ve already told you your items are entirely sidestepping the point.

My “items” aren’t sidestepping the point. I have legit taken on everything you have said head on. And I will now do that again. Please. It’s clear I am making an effort to explore our disagreement and further understand it. You didn’t provide any of that with your response before this. You just tucked tail which is a coward move. I’m glad you stepped up.

I haven’t said your points aren’t up for debate, I’ve said that I have no reason to give them more weight than someone saying “REEE MASS REZ WAS BROKEN OP AND UNFUN!” In my eyes, the two of you are equally wrong and equally not really worth dealing with. I’m hoping as I dive into this reply of yours that you change my mind. Let’s see…

Your version of satisfying isn’t mine, fine, but that doesn’t change the fact that creativity, expression, and excitement are significantly reduced than what they were pre-rework and post-nerfs.

Uh… No? I find those things increased compared to Mercy 1.0. I can express myself skillfully through use of GA and the bunnyhop tech in ways I couldn’t during Mercy 1.0. I can express myself via Valk in ways that I couldn’t prior to the rework. I felt that Mass Rez, with it’s requirement of team mates being dead, limited my expression in a lot of ways.

Again, who’s feelings do we care about more?

Valkyrie’s flight is NOT an equalizer, flight or not, her base kit has been reduced to the point where she has fewer options and expression available to her at launch.

Her kit, outside of ult, was ONLY reduced when it came to the recent -10 hps nerf. A nerf I have said numerous times I’m unsure was necessary.

Two of the points you completely ignored or intentionally misunderstood.

Yeah… No… I completely acknowledged and totally understand them both. They’re just weak points. You get that, right?

People that say Mass Rez is unfun CHARACTERISTICALLY IGNORE what Mercy players have said.

Doesn’t matter. You’re saying I’m ignoring you, and now you’re saying people that say Mass Rez is unfun are ignoring things as well. Wanna talk about what you’re ignoring? Why do I have reason to put significant weight behind your feelings and what you’ve said compared to them? I don’t find your arguments very well reasoned or well constructed. Just like I don’t find the arguments of people saying “MASS REZ IS UNFUN” as being reasoned or well constructed.

Thus why I don’t deal with the feelz. Makes sense, ya?

It doesn’t have to be a revert, yet everyone completely ignores and invalidates any points and groups them in with the revert/rework crowd… which you’ve done, 4 times, just to me.

Huh? I’m pretty sure I haven’t lumped you in with any particular group.

And hey, to be fair, you’ve been assuming a lot about me, haven’t you? You continue to do it. Let them without sin cast the first stone, yo.

You have no reading comprehension.

I’m starting to feel it’s better than yours tbh.

Pre-emptive, as in, you activate before a teamfight instead of during. I couldn’t have made this any more clear with the literal words

You said preemptive damage boosting. You can’t preemptively damage boost how Mercy is rn on live. I think you’re failing to understand what is taking place.

Furthermore, by saying something is just pure emotion, you’re discarding the fact that emotion carries weight in a conversation. Tone policing is obnoxious and completely ignores one of the three major components of an argument, pathos.

I didn’t say it was pure emotion. Again, you’re assuming. I’m not discarding anything. I’m arguing it just doesn’t carry water/weight. That’s it.

Not to mention you being a hypocrite and saying that emotion should be removed from the equation, when you yourself just put your emotions out on the table and escalated them above others’.

I cited my own emotions in relation to your citation of your emotions to show that we are at odds and as such our emotions cancel out. I’m not being hypocritical at all. You are really failing to understand what’s taking place here it seems.

Mass Rez is just one option. If you haven’t lived under a rock, you’d have heard tempo and solo rezzing as being options as well in her launch kit.

Uh huh… So now you assuming I don’t know about tempo and solo rezzing? I explained to you how in the scrims I played in Mass Rez was used to just bring up Pharah. Like… Reading comprehension? Are you failing to understand what I’m saying?

Many other options have been suggested post-Valkyrie.

I know they have. I myself have suggested some of them. Again, reading compreheension?

No, you can’t. You intentionally misdirected all of my talking points to things that you could pick apart one by one.

No I didn’t. I addressed them head on. I’m sorry that your arguments are weak but I can’t help you with that. I can take over for you if you want. Like I said, I can argue what you are FAR better than you are. Want me to demonstrate that?

This is not an emotional argument. This is not an exaggerated argument.

If that’s the case for you, then the same can be said for me. But you seem to try and portray me as some unreasonable and emotional party in this discussion. Nonsense. Get your story straight.

I have no attachment to Mercy, and personally if she were to be F tier forever to the end of time, I wouldn’t care because my preferred healers are Ana, Lucio, Moira, and Zen.

That’s cool, I actually do care. So if you don’t care, bow out.

I’m not a Mercy main.

Never said you were. Reading comprehension?

The only emotion I’m feeling is frustration, from talking with you, because you take things so incredibly literally, and then assert yourself as right.

That frustration is because you make terrible arguments and I don’t let that noise stand. I will tear down what you say. Period. You attempt to do the same to me, so don’t act surprised when I turn it around on you.

We’re done here. You keep saying I’m emotional, and that my talking points are about emotion and balance, when I’ve been on a completely different angle from the start.

I’m not going to entertain you by trying to argue against something that was never a counterpoint to my argument.

Yeah we are done here. As you have no argument. Legit.

Good effort though. You take care, now.

[Quest-11845]

All 3 of the main healers have high pick rates. Until higher ranks where people don’t need massive healing as much.
What’s your point?

My point is that she isn’t niche like you were trying to portray her. Obviously.

I’d say a bit more than slight changes. For the record, I don’t think mass Resurrect should come back.

We can agree on that. (woops, sorry for putting argue there I meant agree lmao rip)

It’s actually fairly logical.

Holding onto Mass Rez isn’t fairly logical. It’s emotional.

[FFirebrandd-1844]

My point is that she isn’t niche like you were trying to portray her. Obviously.

Did you miss that from silver up until whenever Moira falls off like a boulder, both other main healers are picked more than her?

That means that in her role of main healer, she is in fact niche.

Also can I just say how ridiculous it is that Ana is picked more than Mercy in SILVER? Even at the height of Ana’s triple tank meta, that didn’t happen until above platinum. Granted Moira didn’t exist at the time, but still.

Holding onto Mass Rez isn’t fairly logical. It’s emotional.

From a certain point of view it is very logical. “I don’t like Mercy 2.0, I liked Mercy 1.0. It should be easy to just go back. Why don’t we just do that?”

On the surface, that seems perfectly logical.

[Quest-11845]

Did you miss that from silver up until whenever Moira falls off like a boulder, both other main healers are picked more than her?

Nah I didn’t. Why did you think I missed it?

That means that in her role of main healer, she is in fact niche.

No, it just means she’s not picked much.

Brigitte on introduction was an ez af hero to play with MAD return. She didn’t blow up in pick rate throughout the lower ranks. So what?

Also can I just say how ridiculous it is that Ana is picked more than Mercy in SILVER? Even at the height of Ana’s triple tank meta, that didn’t happen until above platinum. Granted Moira didn’t exist at the time, but still.

Yeah that’s a thing, possibly needing addressing. We will see when the PTR and Bap introduction drops.

From a certain point of view it is very logical. “I don’t like Mercy 2.0, I liked Mercy 1.0. It should be easy to just go back. Why don’t we just do that?”

Because Mass Rez was trash and had balancing problems inherent to how it operated. That’s why it’s not easy to go back. The whole goal of the rework, regardless of how poorly it was handled, was to remove Mass Rez. Going back to that makes no sense.

On the surface, that seems perfectly logical.

And beneath the surface it becomes clear it isn’t logical. Obvious stuff imo.

[Cleopatra-21937]

The whole goal of the rework, regardless of how poorly it was handled, was to remove Mass Rez.

Goal of rework was to remove hide & rez, actually. But it returned, when rez received slowdown.

[Quest-11845]

Goal of rework was to remove hide & rez, actually.

Which was inherent to Mass Rez so long as the Mercy was given the opportunity to pull it off and survive. Without that opportunity, it was not hide and rez so much as it was “suicide and rez.” Which was also problematic.

Either way, Mass Rez was a trash ult outside of mid tier - low tier and QP play. Period. It didn’t give some huge feelz of accomplishment outside of those chaotic circumstance. In organized settings, it was a way to bring up your Pharah pocket.

I don’t want to go back to that. Esp not with some gimped version of Mass Rez with LOS restrictions, cast times, no invuln, etc.

[FFirebrandd-1844]

Nah I didn’t. Why did you think I missed it?

Because it matters quite a bit and you didn’t mention it.

No, it just means she’s not picked much.

That’s exactly what it means. If literally all of a hero’s competition is picked ahead of them at most ranks, they are niche.

Yeah that’s a thing, possibly needing addressing. We will see when the PTR and Bap introduction drops.

In my opinion, Mercy getting more viable because of Baptiste and the DPS buffs would be the worst. If that happens, that will literally spell doom for any future Mercy changes.

Also I hate my phone. Fighting auto correct is obnoxious.

And beneath the surface it becomes clear it isn’t logical. Obvious stuff imo.

They didn’t get below the surface. It didn’t help that the dev’s did a poor job of explaining why the rework happened, then handled basically the whole aftermath even worse.

[Quest-11845]

Because it matters quite a bit and you didn’t mention it.

Saw no reason to make a point of how all the “main supports” are picked, I was just going over where Mercy sat in pick rate in regards to the 30 or whatever other heroes.

That’s exactly what it means. If literally all of a hero’s competition is picked ahead of them at most ranks, they are niche.

Hm… That’s a definition I haven’t heard of before. Where did this come from? Is it your own personal determination?

In my opinion, Mercy getting more viable because of Baptiste and the DPS buffs would be the worst. If that happens, that will literally spell doom for any future Mercy changes.

I think it’d be good, but that’s because I don’t see any like huge problems with how current Mercy is. That doesn’t mean I’m happy with how Mercy is right now, she could be changed, but I am very much for her being viable. That’s important to me. I don’t see how Mass Rez would make her more viable.

They didn’t get below the surface. It didn’t help that the dev’s did a poor job of explaining why the rework happened, then handled basically the whole aftermath even worse.

Yeah the devs messed up. But like I said above, I don’t see how giving her Mass Rez now would help her viability. I’m pretty sure it’d harm it tremendously. Especially in any semblance of a coordinated setting due to how much the game has changed since Mass Rez was in game.

I “empathize” and such with the complaints, I truly do. However, I see Mass Rez as a threat to Mercy’s viability. That’s not even touching on all the problems I see in it from a design type perspective etc.

I am arguing for preserving Mercy’s viability as I see her as an important part in encouraging a diverse meta. I will not compromise on her viability in order to appease the feelings of a vocal few.

[Cleopatra-21937]

I’m pretty sure it’d harm it tremendously.

Mass rez was core of Mercy’s viability, as it allowed to adjust to all kinds of tiers. If your teammates are good, tempo rez of 1-2 players will do the trick. If they are not, increase number to 3-4, and you are still good.

Valkyrie is completely inflexible in that department, as well as E rez.

[Quest-11845]

Mass rez was core of Mercy’s viability

No it wasnt at all. Mass Rez hindered Mercys viability in coordinated settings tremendously.

[Cleopatra-21937]

No it wasnt at all. Mass Rez hindered Mercys viability in coordinated settings tremendously.

Which are insignificant part of playerbase, and preferred “more skilled” healers.
Pushing them to use her was a mistake.

[Quest-11845]

Which are insignificant part of playerbase, and preferred “more skilled” healers.

Irrelevant. Mercy being viable at all tiers allows for a more diverse meta. This topic is about her viability. I am very protective of her viability.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Irrelevant. Mercy being viable at all tiers allows for a more diverse meta. This topic is about her viability. I am very protective of her viability.

You protect nothing. Other healers are more viable, than her.

[Quest-11845]

You protect nothing. Other healers are more viable, than her.

Depends on comp, map, etc, as it should.

I protect far more than you appreciate.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Depends on comp, map, etc, as it should.

I protect far more than you appreciate.

You don’t. She is least viable healer as far down as Silver. Something not even pre-rework Mercy had happened.

[Quest-11845]

You don’t. She is least viable healer as far down as Silver.

She isn’t. She is far more viable than Moira in coordinated settings.

You fail to see the big picture tbh.

[Cleopatra-21937]

She isn’t. She is far more viable than Moira in coordinated settings.

You fail to see the big picture tbh.

No, you do. You fail to see, that majority of playerbase isn’t in tiers, where Mercy is viable. She requires good teammates, and that’s not something common in platinum and below.

[Quest-11845]

No, you do. You fail to see, that majority of playerbase isn’t in tiers, where Mercy is viable.

Bronze: 3rd most picked hero.
Silver: 4th most picked hero.
Gold: 4th most picked hero.
Plat: 9th most picked hero.

Say what?

Stats don’t support your position.

[Cleopatra-21937]

Say what?

Stats don’t support your position.

They do, in fact. And higher tiers are irrelevant, indeed, just like OWL.

Quit trying to defend nothing.

[Quest-11845]

They do, in fact. And higher tiers are irrelevant, indeed, just like OWL.

So being the 9th most picked hero in Plat is “unviable”? Wew… Can’t agree with you on that.