Ultra extreme low quality matchmaking

Competitive Discussion
61

No. Absolutely not.

If MMR and SR were reversed, then smurfing would be impossible, as the system does spot smurfs and tries to move them up the ranks quickly by giving them tons of SR when they win. After a couple of throw cycles, their MMR can be reliably set and then they will only get matches close to/at their true MMR. It will significantly curb smurfing, at the expense of “Ranks” that make players feel good (or bad, lol).

The SR/Rank System is a carrot, and they don’t want to get rid of it - even if the alternative is more balanced matches.

The issue is that the Smurfs can reliably throw matches to drop SR and put themselves in low rank games. Because of the SR System, MMR does not matter when the matches are created - only the SR matters, because the system will only match players within a specific SR range.

The SR/MMR balance only works when players are playing fairly, but you cannot reliably assume that to happen, and it doesn’t take a majority of players to completely ruin the game for others at lower ranks (by disrupting competitive integrity, which makes the game mode an overall joke).

Even if a smurf is destroying people, because he’s a masters player, his SR1250 account is never going to be put in Diamond or Masters games. SR limits that, so the system is forced to queue him up with and against Bronse and Silver players.

If SR weren’t a thing, then the system can detect the smurf, start moving them up during their win streaks, and barely/not move them down until they’re being matched consistently against players of their true MMR - which is based on much more than simply winning or losing matches.

The SR can be used to give the smurfs TONS of SR when they win, but the smurfs can always throw and lose purposely to suppress those gains and remain at a low rank. SR based on wins and losses are 100% exploitable. MMR is far less so.

Stopped reading at the above quote because, really, just no…

62

The Olympics could be much better, especially if each competitor was only placed against other athletes of equal skill so that each athlete had a 50% chance of winning, basically the same system Overwatch uses. If every athlete has a 50% chance of winning then it makes for fair competition, every match in the olympics should be fair, and should use the Overwatch matchmaking system as a template.

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63

This defeats the ENTIRE purpose of what Competition is.

IN REAL competition, you’ll be faced against players/athletes that ARE better/worse than you. It’s called COMPETITION for god’s sake. Trying to FORCE BALANCE an athelete/player’s skill by rigging the outcome of their match is a disgrace.

If YOU are the BEST of the BEST, then technically, you should be able to go UNDEFEATED until another challenger who is better than you comes and dethrones your position.

Only whiners, complainers, and those that ARE NOT THE BEST OF THE BEST love this idea. They choose to not put in the hard work to become the best of the best. This current matchmaking system IS FOR THE LAZY WHO CHOOSE NOT TO PUT IN THE HARD WORK to actually GIT GUD. What a disgrace.

MMR does not allow this to happen and, therefore, invalidates ALL of the matches to be considered genuine competition. It’s fake.

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64

This is SO funny and ironic at the same time, said by someone who truly is lazy and has not climbed :rofl: :rofl:

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65

what an ignorant statement. I’ve climbed from <500sr to 2243 SOLO queued with only Hanzo since season 24. Don’t question my hard work ethic. I got to where I am with grit and guts.

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66

Yes, then no. It’s not two ranking systems. You don’t need two ranking systems, it’s two versions of the same ranking system, a public one and an internal one. It’s not really a separate system like PBSR.

MMR is only long term in the sense that if you’ve been consistent, it’ll assume you haven’t changed suddenly. You may have heard me talk about mu and sigma, that’s the value and certainty of the MMR number. You’re right that SR will move based on leaving, so it is REALLY short term, but if you’re not messing the systems up on purpose they “track very closely”. Developer words. Also developer words: they’ve never matched on SR at all.

There are 3 situations where your can gain more SR on a win than the standard.

  1. You win against people of higher MMR. Your MMR and SR will raise.
  2. You win after a disconnect or other punishment (also decay when it was a thing). This one is ready to see.
  3. You are below diamond and you outperform the average on that character and MMR/SR. This, PBSR, is the most obscure part of the MM. They really haven’t talked much about how PBSR works.

I’m out of the house doing fun stuff today, I know that’s not a complete response and had no references, but hopefully it’ll get you started.

The clowns have been in charge of the information since Kaawumba and I left, I’m not surprised that people have bad information. The final advice, that it’s up to your skill to win games, is still sound, but like I told mercy and lettuce, it’s best if you’re bagging it off accurate information.

The imaginary system they have in their heads absolutely would be broken, actually worse than they claim.

67

You’re just mixing up SR and MMR. MMR actually does what you think SR does. SR doesn’t do anything at all, just look pretty and allow punishment for leaving.

They’re getting rid of SR, keeping MMR in OW2.

You should read the rest. You’re not seeing so much as have words mixed up, much like zax.

Largely, we all agree. This is a quibble over technical accuracy.

68

But when the Olympics places them in matches where Usain Bolt is going to beat them it’s not fair, they shouldn’t have to face Usain Bolt if it’s not fair, similar to how OW matchmaking will place weaker players on a team to balance the teams, or at least make Bolt start several yards back to make it fair. How can you say that the Olympics is a good way to find out who the best is if the matches are completely unfair???

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69

But as I said thats not all. There are situations where your MMR is too far from SR and that can results of SR loss or gains up to ±150. You wont ever gain or lose even over like 60 with just PBSR. (if we ignore fresh accounts where getting/losing high amount it normal)

70

Wow… I cannot believe I am seeing someone argue about this.

So you’re saying a GM Smurf is going to be matched against GM Players if they threw to 1250 SR?

I’m not sure if you’re trolling me, or just that lacking in intelligence.

The SR System literally prevents them from being matched against players that are in the same MMR, because they have thrown their SR - intentionally - way out of range of the players who have MMR similar to theirs. The game will not match anyone with 1250 SR against someone with 3500+. This never happens.

Someone can play on the same account at Diamond for 5 years and then throw to Bronze and they will ruin all the Bronze games by smurfing.

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71

Absolutely not.

If they decayed, then yes. But that doesn’t happen anymore, never to that level anyways. They’d decay to diamond though, so you used to see “diamond” players in GM games.

But if they threw, that GM Smurf, as far as the system knows, is 1250 MMR.

It’s not a magic mind reading machine.

72

No one decays to 1250 SR.

Are you even thinking about what you’re saying?

You’re seriously going to keep arguing this? I’m just going to block you because I cannot waste time on this level of incompetence.

Bye.

You’re blocked so don’t bother replying to me. I won’t waste my time on this…

With proper MMR-based matchmaking the SR system is totally unnecessary. It exists predominantly to facilitate ranking which gives players a carrot to chase or hold onto (a progression system). That is all.

MMR creates balanced matches within an SR range only when players don’t abuse the SR system, because the game is designed to adhere to hard limits in SR ranges when creating matches. Once a player intentionally throws his SR out of range, the system breaks.

People taking a break and decaying are not a problem, because they will play up to their proper skill level and won’t throw matches to artificially keep themselves down to ruin games for lower ranked players.

The “Decay” scenario is unremarkable and completely unrelated to what I’m talking about.

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73

That’s situation 1. It’s essentially like having a new account, if you’re winning so much that the system become uncertain again. You’ll be put in games where your MMR matches and your SR will eventually catch up.

This did happen with decay. It used to be routine.

74

So toxic for someone who largely agrees with you …

You know what, you're not even reading what wasn't blocked so never mind.

I’ll provide better quality posts later.

75

Maybe you should try to read and understand what I’m saying first.

See, largely agreement.

76

Here you have example of what i talk about, look at games 19 - 27 where in 27 I gained +89 SR. Thats not just PBSR. Thats compensation for my MMR being too far from my SR after multiple games with overperforming, so I am getting bonus for that (on top of PBSR). And then I lost so my MMR didnt go up that much anymore so i started getting only PBSR without bonus as SR and MMR was close.

WW5B11 4 827 +38 WIN 1:0 Numbani X
7MWHQ7 5 814 -13 LOSS 0:2 Busan X
8HSVMZ 6 814 X CANCELED 0:0 Temple of An. L
FWZJKW 7 803 -11 LOSS 0:1 Dorado X
NEH9G3 8 803 X CANCELED 0:0 Eichenwalde L
204HA7 9 790 -13 LOSS 0:2 Oasis T
5H23QV 10 790 X CANCELED 0:0 Watchpoint L
4AWAZ1 11 817 +27 WIN 1:0 Kings Row X
C2CC03 12 805 -12 LOSS 1:2 Volskaya E.S.
80GBC1 13 833 +28 WIN 1:0 Havana X
ZW7C6Z 14 862 +29 WIN 2:1 Ilios X
00251B 15 890 +28 WIN 3:1 Rialto E.S.
X 16 922 +32 WIN 1:0 Volskaya X
T8RRSM 17 922 X CANCELED 0:0 Junkertown L
W0ZH83 18 956 +34 WIN 3:2 Hollywood X
MYWCJR 19 990 +34 WIN 1:0 Temple X
KKY4M3 20 1042 +52 WIN 3:0 Watchpoint X
ZM7CGX 21 1090 +48 WIN 2:1 Busan X
DKCVX6 22 1142 +52 WIN 1:0 Kings Row X
3B4S09 23 1142 X CANCELED 0:0 Dorado L
TGDZDK 24 1206 +58 WIN 2:0 Nepal X
T79GGD 25 1295 +89 WIN 4:3 Blizzard World X
4QCW2R 26 1295 X CANCELED 0:0 Watchpoint L
WTJTVR 27 1388 +93 WIN 1:0 Eichenwalde X
QMXRM0 28 1369 -19 LOSS 1:2 Dorado X
BKXYWZ 29 1369 X CANCELED 0:0 Temple L
1X3VXB 30 1400 +31 WIN 2:0 Ilios X
ME8K6D 31 1380 -20 LOSS 0:2 Hanamura L
GDMQS0 32 1410 +30 WIN 2:0 Lyjing Tower X

I played bad in game where I gained +89 SR, i died many times and i had to switch like 3x to get my pick working well. NO WAY I would get +89 because of PBSR 400+ SR higher than at 800 SR where i was getting like 2-3 less. Its not PBSR , those 89 for example, its mostly compensation for MMR being higher than SR.

77

Kaawumba did data analysis on hundreds of games that showed this. I’m not sure why you think PBSR is limited to 60. If true, I’d appreciate a reference.

But, nothing you just said is really any different from what I’ve been saying. You’re right that SR moves to match MMR. What did you think i meant?

I feel you and who’sit are thinking I’m one of the conspiracy theorists rather than someone who’s been studying the system with data for years.

Just look up Kaawumba’s posts, that’ll explain what i mean better.

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78

I did the same and I think I am definitely right on this as I have it confirmed on multiple accounts hundreds of games with a lot of data.

I didnt say its limited to 60. I am saying that you wont get that much outside of being fresh account after placement. If you are getting that much on established account, its not only BPSR. Its PBSR+difference between SR and MMR.

I dont think that, i dont know your opinions that well but i aksed around and was told that you are not from rigged conspiracy bunch :slight_smile: I just think that our opinions on system are different in this one aspect. You think its just PBSR, I am saying its not just that.

I mean look at my results? If all that would be PBSR, how I would be gaining +89 at 1300 SR and only for example +28 SR almost 500 SR below? It doesnt make any sense because I would be overperforming a lot more lower. If I didnt lose there after, I would start getting more and more up to +150 limit untill I would lose game. Thats because with every another won game my MMR goes up a lot higher.

79

After seeing his ball, I’ll take my chances, it’s the same rank.

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80

I do this every so often because most here have a hard time with reading comprehension, and/or tend to forget.

I’ve yet to have met anyone who actually likes the ranking system for this game, we’ve openly said it, we just don’t feel or see it in the same light, NO I do not think it’s rigged, YES I think it could be vastly improved on, and that’s how most people see it.

Yes and no, before I hurt myself I was much higher ranked than I am now, most of the advice I can personally give, if followed, can land you high plat/low diamond.

They loosened the match maker due to a dwindling player base, this is true, can’t create games without 12 people in queue for one.

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