after playing tracer most of the day and of course shaking off the rust i think i messed up in playing overwatch from the beginning. when the game released way back in 2016 i played soldier first than tracer for a bit, think it was about a month but once i started playing widow i just played her only for about 2 and half years. have a 1000+ hours on widow and then later i became a sombra main mostly
maybe i should have just been a tracer only main since it is the games poster child heh. devs really never heavy handed nerfed her except of course they made more dive counters like brig and moira.
still it think she is a beautiful character/hero and her story isnt bad either. just never cared for her much i guess
here is some highlights and a potg of todays game. one last hurrah for current tracer but really lol… this nerf seems like a slap on the wrist. might play her more or ill stop and get rusty again. wish i was young too like in my teens i probably would be a savant with tracer. im too old now hehe
Nope, what you don’t get is that they Shouldn’t mix high mobility and safe tools to scape. There are several dive heroes who by themselves are fine.
The issue is having strengths and appropriate weakness. Some heroes doesn’t have that.
Sigma, Orisa, tracer, sombra are examples of that, while pharah had but not anymore. If you took your time you would notice the problem.
Either I like or not certain kind of gameplay, doesn’t mean that a bad design isn’t a bad design.
The window isn’t that big and the amount of options where you will land aren’t exactly small neither you have much problems on destination.
Sombra had clear limitations on that regard. Giving her a way better counterplay.
Which is good to be risk. Is a start. Having a good risk, means other parts can be iterated on. If there’s a risk, there’s space for a reward.
Who said mobility is bad? Stacking too much forgiviness is what is bad. Sigma and orisa aren’t mobile heroes and still are bad designs.
Tracer has damage and low hp (which is completely fine)
She has mobility which is also completely fine due her lower hp.
Recall, tho? Isn’t. Due giving mobility, forgiviness and a breakpoint for her status. Wanna know a better design? The old sombra translocator. Wanna know another bad design? Permanent invisibility
Is not about mobility. Is about forgiviness on engagements that made several things on OW through history emerge.
Her nerfs should have been huge, literally the most powercrept character in this entire game.
Oh nooooo one more second on recall whatever will you do with your extra HP, no death breakpoints combos basically whatsoever and your guaranteed get out of jail free card because nothing can kill combo you in neutral anymore?
The thing she supposed to do best, should have bigger caveats, or better wording. Higher risks.
Maybe for one tricks on bronze. Recall can be a strategic tool, but relying too much on it is a bad design also.
Actually I want, due being a better design. Why? Because is a design that can be worked with. Most of design problems are related to lack of response or too forgiviness.
All abilities from tracer have some kind of response, recall almost none.
Even old sombra translocator was better overall due ability to remove some of her forgiviness.
She already has one of highest damage outputs of the game, make it riskier even if means more stability on her raw damage. The ult nerf doesn’t make much sense if what you stated was what her purpose.
Which is fine, their purpose is to kill. Isn’t? If the hero is balanced around survivability should pay a price, which would be damage or mobility or both at some degree.
Tracer has good damage, low hp and high mobility which itself is fine. Recall add forgiviness due how it works. Which breaks the design. Like I mentioned, even old translocator were more balanced.
Risks equal more mistakes, mistakes equals for trying to learn from them. If the kit becomes forgiving it less prone to mistakes and learn from that.
Folks stick with less riskier setups for the same reasons and why metas stays for that long.
High risks should become with higher rewards, but at same time forgiviness should be paired with few to none.
My only beef with sombra is her invisibility paired with translocator. Not virus or hack. Invisibility could be camouflage and most problems would be solved. Due would generate response for all other abilities and could not require nerfing her damage, which in theory is her job.
So, fairly average is bad? If she is fairly average without it, improve her if actually becomes needed. Not giving a panic button.
Noticed how paradoxal your reasoning gone? From “the thing she is supposed to do best” then, “more or less useless without it”, “kit based on explosive bursts of damage, drawing cooldowns and holding space to top 1v1” , “entire kit hinges on her disengagement potential”
She doesn’t need a healing, she doesn’t need a recall(at least not how it works currently). She needs to keep her mobility, keep managing her cooldowns and have lethality.
Like you mentioned, that would put fairly average. Which means, good design. From that, you can iterate with more charges on blink if needed, more damage if needed.
Is a definition of one trick. Rely in a single tool to do something. Because is easier and forgiving to do so.
So, rely on recall is a good thing? See how paradoxal your reasoning are?
Recall is their panic button and forgiviness button. Folks spent too much time relying on it, should move on to improve.
Mobility plus damage = lethality.
Mobility plus low health = average survivability.
She doesn’t need an excelent survivability neither a panic button, she should excel on her role. Which is kill foes not panicking from it. If she engages and go well good, if don’t she should be punished accordingly.
Folks complained that overwatch had too much mitigation and low risk plays, yet doesn’t want to lose forgiviness.
I actually experimented on workshop on ow1. Is literally way more interesting to play against than recall. Due blink having a range and you can gauge a good tracer and a bad tracer easily. Due one having a good management while the other not.
She either save some to get out or go all win, either way she gets punished by mistakes and rewarded by it’s performance.
Blink can be used creatively but is predictable and can make her be in a rough spot easily if missmanaged.
Seeing your reasoning already shows a lot of your performance. Blink has counterplay. That’s an affirmation. Doesn’t matter if is 1 or 5 charges. Recall, more often than not, don’t.
Ana, brig, Cassidy. Already deal with tracer just fine, without recall, who’s gonna have problems? You really think that blink is too strong? Blink is a fairly easy skill to predict. Due it’s fixed range.
Sorry, but I laughed hard right now.
Sigma was one of the few tanks that didn’t got much changes from 6v6 to 5v5. The same tank that got a ton of nerfs on Ow1 and still enabled double shield. A tank that barely has any downside except against hard cc(which they decreased at expense of other forms of cc, which doesn’t counter him) and melee engagements (which are pretty much 2 heroes).
He is exactly what a tank shouldn’t have. Ability to mitigate and deal damage. He would be a good design without barrier.
Which funny enough, was what enabled double shield in ow1.
Nope, she was the selling point of the game. Not balance. The hero itself is a bad design. Lucio has similar problems but for other reasons, mostly related to his damage
1.5 years of ow1 were based on metas that involved lucio and for a good portion of it tracer.
Brig happened because the same meta. Leading to GOATS after few months.
Was the first time that tracer dropped on pickrate and even that moment lucio was fine.
He is not balanced, neither she. Because if they were they wouldn’t be that amount time within meta.
All heroes had some time in meta, but none had that amount time. Even winston and d.va often shifted towards other tanks ocasionally.
Lucio was a constant on most pre-rq era metas.
History tells otherwise, took 7 years for them to do something about it.
What? How tracer with 5 blinks is being too slow to punish mobility and be too single minded to get around a shield or immovable rock?
Just because I don’t enjoy dive all the time, doesn’t mean that dive is fine, I play it pretty well. What isn’t fine is being forgiving while doing.
You know why sigma and orisa are bad designs? Because they can sustain damage and still do damage, that alone are red flags.
There’s no trade-off. If you have something good, it requires something bad to balance it.
Roadhog and rein have similar designs. Both have balanced designs. Yet they don’t perform that well if you compare to other heroes. Heck even Wreckingball share some of their designs.
Take each tank within the role and you notice that only those 2 has some kind of caveat by doing mitigation. Wreckingball somewhat are getting in there and always had a foot in there.
While his impact on teammates would be a huge shift for sure, even more for dive.
I’m not against dive or high mobility. I’m against forgiviness on abilties without much caveats. Your ability should be riskier, unless you want even more CC in the game(which itself created a ton of problems)
Exactly, also most combos relied on CC. Which itself is an indicative of design problems, considering how much CC they increased trying to mitigate it.
Heck, Cassidy were the icon on most anti-dive comps for a reason prior to brig.
Dude that isn’t even remotely what he’s referring to.
Ashe headshot
Mei headshot
Ana combo
Kiri combo
Just to name a few - if they ran tracer, i’d almost always play mei because you actually got value on her when you landed hits. Now it’s completely useless. She get’s to go in with the best mobility in the game, buffed more than any other dps with the passive, with aim requirements much lower than season 8 tracer and after ALL that if you haven’t already managed to stomp someone, you get out for free with recall because your extra HP has edged you out from pretty much every one of her original death breakpoints.
You can’t balance a character around being a glass cannon and then just decide to take away the glass. Like if bronze players are getting value on tracer, there’s a serious problem.
The whole point of tracer is that she’s difficult to hit but it pays off because of the low HP threshold. That is just completely gone now.
I thought Tracer Players were all about that skill you say your counters should have?
It’s almost like they know how busted she is compared to everyone and are afraid they will have to put their money on the table when it comes to displaying their skills instead of having the game hold their hands…
I don’t know about you but I’m getting a little tired of them messing with entire ecosystems. They do these broad changes, almost never revert it (I’ll give them props for Mei though) then have to make exceptions by inflating another aspect up to the point where it’s back to how it is anyway just in a more messy capacity.
She’s doing pretty well at low ranks too. Her skill floor is basically removed with how easy it is to get value with her. I just don’t think low rank players actually like playing her, which is fine. A lot might think she’s too hard to play still too.
All g my friend, I just took your response as being too focused on CC when so many people are forgetting how much she’s actually been shadow buffed by all these massive changes.
Is fine, while several CC were added because of it. Most of them wouldn’t be present if recall didn’t existed.
The CC often were a tool to prevent her from recalling.
I highlighted CC, just because, if certain designs were managed since the beginning we wouldn’t need the amount of CC the game got in the past neither the current one.
Skill shots should be rewarded, while I get they tried to reduce burst damage across the board. They should also keep some stuff at bay, which tracer is a example of that.
I feel like ow2 is going on ow1 “2016” things and taking a different route. If they take the right route they could improve a ton on core values and create a good ground for the future.
I personally enjoyed more 6v6 and less mobility. But the game itself needs a bit of everything and if they’re commited to 5v5, at least they should make it properly.
I would rather have a diverse game than dull/boring one kind of template. Overwatch can have space for all those, they just be careful how to do certain stuff. The high risk and high rewards approach is a pretty good template for a diverse game like ow. Also helps to keep metas fresh.
The problem is in your head. Tracer, Sombra, Sigma, and Orisa all have clear weaknesses. I’m sorry you haven’t figured it out yet. Tracer in particular has been here since day 1 and is excellently designed. If you think she isn’t, the problem is you.
Orisa had a rework
Sigma barely got changed in a game that most of cast received changes
Tracer got a nerf, even a small one
Sombra got a rework and a small nerf.
Then, we still disagree.
If you think so… yet their actions state otherwise. Maybe the problem isn’t me.
No, it’s definitely you. Tracer is really well designed. She’s got a pretty amazing kit. She’s literally the least changed hero over 8 years because she is actually one of the best designed heroes in the game.
Isn’t proof of well designed, instead of a proof of not handling a properly that said “well designed one”.
CC became more popular for a reason, a reason who was present for an year and a half.
If you still cant’t see it. Well, we will disagree for almost everything. Is fine to have different point of views, you like stuff that I don’t like and vice-versa.
First you stated anti-mobility, which shows clear lack of reading of what I typed. Due I’m not against it and already explained it several times already.
Even reinforces that you barely read it.
I know I type a lot. But if you at least not spend time reading to who you respond, you will not be able to convince or discuss with it.
That alone would demote this reponse:
Also, shows that you actually ignored my opinion.
So, if you plan to ignore my opinion and even more not elaborate what and why. Then, at least I will share the same courtesy, instead of wasting my time responding to it.
