I disagree about Moira, as Sym dumpsters her or at the very least can nearly always escape her.
TP. Blocks. The beam. Since Moira does such low damage and her orb doesn’t target the TP, it will take her a long time to burn through it. She can safely be orb or beamed down since she can’t heal off of the TP. Her beam will also fail to target turrets on the TP, forcing her to Fade at them and melee, or to disengage.
Seriously, just plop the TP in her face. Sym is one of the few DPS that really either obliterates Moira or sends her running.
except you need to be more strict with that you save it for with that guaranteed 12s down time.
cool…because bunker sym is great way to get value when you’re often stuck outside of your effective range when doing so… not to mention the team repositioning much more often than you can move tp.
She was never really meant to be very mobile in the first place, and bunkering down in areas has pretty much always been her purpose as well. She’s also still true to her design of a DPS that creates space akin to tanks. You can’t really be mad at the kit, because she has always been like this. It’s why I don’t much mind her mobility being regressed slightly. It’s more of an inconvenience in situations where you die, but nobody kills the TP or they kill it after you respawn.
not as mobile as say a tracer of course, but not bunkering down to 1 static area for 1+ entire fight(s) until a cool down period where you can finally move tp. that’s not dynamic or flexible at all. even bastion would move around more unless he’s hard pocketted (which is not a requirement you want to put on a hero in a game like overwatch anyways).
she is definitely supposed to move around even in the heat of battle:
shift from 6 turrets to 3 for shorter setup
the very basis of putting tp on a cd ability and what it does
making turrets throwable
making photon barrier infinitely large
all of that points to making sym move around more and not just simply when fights are over. And this isn’t even going into how objectives move and the upcoming shift in barrier tank balance yet.
Geoff’s comments for when 3.0 was released:
the whole point of the 3.0 rework was to get sym to not be so static like 2.0 and move around more.
You’re also really downplaying how much the guaranteed 12s downtime on tp as affected her gameplay. an “inconvenience” is a huge understatement given how many individual uses got gutted by this change.
And just to cover my bases, individual uses are cumulatively just as valuable as team uses mind you given how low frequency the team actually needs or wants any of the team uses and their variance in getting value from teammate consent.
It’s not one static area it’s two. That’s kinda the point of the TP.
That’s not what he’s saying. He’s referring to the process of placing Syms old turrets. It took a decade comparatively to set each individual turret in each spot to what she has now. And as a result, those placements mattered significantly more since it was a 60s cd for her full set and she could only place them around herself, therefor, failing to properly predict where the best nest was ended up being more punishing.
She’s still supposed to bunker down, she’s just not as punished by it as her old placement mechanics forced her to be. Both in actually placing the nests and where she could place them.
I cant say I’ve played a lot of Symm recently, I more into the bomb squad recently (pharah/junk)
but her dueling potential is actually decent. You wouldn’t expect Reaper to win a duel with a sniper who has a 40M range advantage on him. Symm is kinda like Reaper in this manor.
You want to have your tool available to you. Recently out dueled a Tracer by using my teleporter and secondary fire with a turret finishing blow.
You got to be creative with her and that what makes her so fun.
Also, I love her beam but I feel like people really underuse her massive alternate fire. Ever try bunny hop/crouch spamming then dropping a huge freak projectile on them? It’s damn near impossible to miss with that thing at like under 10M.
It’s like spamming Samus blue ball thingy in Smash. Cheesy but effective.
you as sym will be in playing in 1 area and holding 1 area and staying there until danger comes and then you use tp (what you’re originally talking about)…
if that were truly the case, throwable turrets + a small hp buff would have been enough and the 60s cd for a full set wouldn’t have mattered seeing, as you say, “she’s supposed to bunker down” i.e. not move them. if she really is supposed to bunker down, her ults would not have changed as they were literally meant for bunkering down.
but that didn’t happen. they traded area coverage in turrets for lower setup time along with allowing them to be thrown. why? to setup quicker and in more areas? why? to move around more and not be so devoted/committed to 1 area i.e. not bunker down so much.
they took away shield gen. they put tp as a base ability. why? to move around more. to be able to move tp around more so sym can adapt to the situation more, i.e. not to bunker down so much.
My beef is they lowered her skill floor. Primarily with infinite long range TP rather than being a reactive ability. They removed her mobility and instead added value by existing (Like lucio 1.0).
Also with M1 now being crap again its just M2 choke spam = value.
tp doesnt block the beam. if you aim upwards it’ll still lock on symmetra.
and we dont always have tp available.
good god i dont wanna know how terrible you need to be at moira to lose against symmetra, maybe the ones you know are just boosted or throw
not even tbh @ value by existing tbh
because a tp up somewhere where it’s likely only going to be used for a few seconds for most of match time isn’t actually not providing value for most of the match. same with M2 spam since it’s inconsistent to land outside of about <15m range.
Yes and you dance around it. It makes the Moira require to “headshot” you and I think we both know people don’t play Moira to click on heads. Even if she latches at some points, this can drag out the duel far out of Moiras favor.
but even so, why waste a whole tp on her? that already puts it against syms favor.
before the change? absolutely valid. good counterplay
…now? it feels so clunky. you wasted a tp against moira, now you are dead meat for the next 12 seconds.
Okay, let’s say she approaches you while you were in the open. Her range is 21m. Yours is 12m. Are you going to run to cover, where she’ll just throw an orb and kill you anyway?
the orb alone is enough to debilitate sym and make her an easy pick for another member of moiras team so yea, not really a chance
other dps (any) can work around it with much less clunkier ways
The orb is only threatening if you’re trying to run from Moira, who will have likely thrown it at you or your escape route. TP also does this thing where it, yknow, teleports you away from things. Like Moira if necessary. But I’m telling you all you need is it in front of you and she is harmless.
if I’m not alone: literally hide behind my teammates because with tp having a guaranteed 12s down time, I’m guaranteed a cost of being essentially out of the fight for 12s after taking care of moira regardless which is not something I want to freely toss away when I don’t have to. old tp didn’t have this issue since cd ticked away from activation.
if I’m alone: well then, there’s nothing else left to do other than try a play like
because might as well die trying. either suffer death which is a longer time wasted in walking back, or suffer a highlight long 12s of waiting. so pick the latter which is the lesser of 2 poisons (again, not an issue with old 3.0 tp for reasons specified above).
individual uses of tp (and consequently pretty much any individual plays sym can do) have become a last resort due to tp down time nerf. and that’s a big issue.
Ugh i’ve been so salty ever since this change. It only promoted a more static gameplay… which is ironic because the notes said they tried to make her more ““flexible””… it feels the EXACT opposite