This is just weird to me. Why do you think that he needs a nerf?
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Aw man, donāt even remind me of the bane of my fun as a tank. So hard to fit in Reinhardt in most comps, dude is kinda of a punching bag right now, I always feel like I have to switch accordingly to the enemy teamās comp, not that fun if you ask me.
Short answer: Look at the T500 leaderboards, hes one of the 4 best tanks, Winston is incredibly good in the new 5v5 format, specially with his buffs he got, hes the only shield tank that did not get his shield nerfed, i think they gotta nerf his shield and take a bit of his armor.
Long asnwer : He is one of the best tanks atm, only kept in check by the fact Zarya and D.va are overtuned, and D.va soft counters him, so in most high lvl games, when there is a need to pick Winston instead of Zarya because there is enough high-ground or just places to dive, where Zarya would just take too long to setup, D.va is picked.
High-lvl tank players when they see a map for Winston, they pick a D.va to defend, because D.va is just basically Reaper but way better when it comes to basically anything, so what happens is that the Winston will switch to D.va to combat that, and even then, its an optional thing, because Winston can be played with really good team coordination to even beat a D.va anti-dive comp but its just easier to pick a D.va and mirror.
Rein is just a worse version of Zarya unfortunately, into most things, Zarya is just waaay better, they gotta pull her back for him to get any space to play.
Sigma/Winston also play the shield-tank role better than him in a lot of scenarios and need to get nerfed accordingly.
D.va is just really good in any scenario really, as long as you know how to play her she is just really strong, in maps where she can apply her mobility then, theres no better option.
So they gotta at least nerf those 4 before he gets to play pretty much, is what i think.
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Highest Iāve been is gold to be fair so I have no reason to disagree, plus I have headshot enough Winstonās as DāVa now I think of it
Why would being possibly only the 4th best tank at top 500 necessitate a nerf? Thereās only 9 tanks total. And beyond that, why wouldnāt what happens in maybe Masters, Diamond, and Plat also be relevant? 90% of the players are in metal ranks. What happens in metal ranks (especially gold and plat) will directly impact Blizzards profits now that this is a free to play game. They can no longer afford (literally) to only do top down balancing or it will cost them actual money as players get frustrated and leave.
He did actually. It got nerfed after beta 2.
But why? Heās already got the lowest damage of any tank. And he has less health and armor than a lot of tanks that have smaller head hotboxes.
It is enough to prevent you from dying in situations where you would which if her ability to confirm kills drops that is a big difference. At the least it should buy another couple seconds to run away, get an ability off cooldown, or get healed. We have to wait and see. Leave it to the balancing experts.
Top down balancing is the right way to go for any game to be balanced, its just the healthier way to tickledown, things will never be balanced if you balance for the players that dont know how to play the game, for many reasons, but just to list a few:
- Floor lvl players dont know how to play the game correctly.
- Floor lvl games have an greater spike of skill in matchmaking.
- High lvl players already have the game down to a tee, they depend on the dev teamās balance changes more.
- Floor lvl players will always try and follow the meta dictated by the high lvl players anyways if they want to win.
- Skill ceilling is very important for any game that even remotely tries to be competitive, and that is what dictates top-down balance.
- Fun is more important than balance in floor games, thats what makes people frustated.
Among other reasons i dont recall rn, if u want proof, look at how Brigitte almost destroyed the game, Mercy 2.0 also completely destroyed the gameās balance by being an utterly skill-ceilling deprived character with ridiculously easy value.
Its not like the skill-floor is utterly useless, iād say theres a 6-3-1 scale (from 1 to 10) on how important it is, 6 for ceilling, 3 for floor, 1 for beginners, thats only for BALANCE, FUN is related to BALANCE but thats besides the point, when only BALANCE is concerned, that should be the scale.
Also, why nerf the top 4 tanks? as i said b4, tanks are too overtuned as a role, always have been and i would like to see some pulling back, also the tank role is incredbly boring atm because of lack of viable options, nerfing the OP tanks will fix both of these issues.
If iām not mistaken, they decreased its duration by 1s and then its cooldown by 1s, an net-nerf, sure enough, one of the smallest nerfs possible.
Because he is just too strong atm, and when changing characters, i like to target whatever is the most boring part of their kits, that translates to HP total and Barrier health when it comes to Winston.
That makes him an riskier option when compared to his peers, he would still have sufficient HP to function, just wouldnt be so strong.
I think its an overral what ~~30 ish less dmg if ur character has a slim hitbox, barely changes much imo, thats really not gonna put her in the lvls of Rein or something where she belongs.
With how headshot damage works in the game, all I could think of is that the further spread will also increase the chance that stray pellets land in the head hitbox. It wonāt be catastrophic, but Iād assume that it would mitigate any real nerfs.
Not entirely. To a degree, but if you only balance for the top then the middle where almost every single player is would be unplayable. And your game will die.
Youāre just flat wrong about this. If this is your reasoning then you canāt be trusted in balance conversations because you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
They took 100 HP from it.
But why do you think this? Pick rate in top 500 alone is not sufficient to call him too strong.
You are not reading,
Its not only for the top, its focused on it.
They did no such thing, its 700 from OW1 to here.
It is a fantastic tell, by watchin Pro-lvl-play, by seeing GM tank play, hes really good, really strong, better option overral than every tank that isnt Zarya/D.va and Sigma.
By playing too, iām a tank player from OW1 as well, peaked GM on it, played alot of Winston.
I follow this gameās state since the first open beta.
So we nerf him to get to a more balanced state.
Is this in OWL? We donāt know PRs for ladder and Iād prefer that balancing around OWL be kept to a minimum. I havenāt watched much high rank D.Va but she seems to be in a mostly good spot in my matches. Strong but never a must pick and Zarya keeps her in check. Makes sense though that nerfs to Zarya necessitate nerfs to D.Va as well.
Its in T500, the actual place the game should be balanced to.
OWL lvl is too high, T500 affects the vast majority of the player base healthier and doesnt affect the pro play too negatively.
Its not like the ladder is locked into a 5 stack scrimm or something.
D.va is so strong that she is picked into Zarya on maps that she can utilize her mobility to just avoid the Zarya alltogether, Zarya nerfs do help her but that just means she should prolly be nerfed even harder.
Sombra was also an incredbly strong pick vs her.
Gotcha. I keep meaning to watch some Emongg to see how she looks up there. Goodman did say that they donāt balance around PRs, but I suspect thatās going to be changing based on something the new hero designer said.
D.Vaās a stall pick too, so that does naturally inflate her usage further, but Iām not surprised to hear that sheās meta at high rank.
U mean Pros? a typo?
Theres less of that on OW2, best stall character is Doom i think but that barely comes into play imo.
D.va is top 2 tank overral for ladder i think.
Nah he said they donāt balance around pickrates but I believe thatās going to change now that heās gone. The new guy made a comment implying that hero usage may now be a balance consideration.
True, in theory Doom should be the best tank stall pick and incidentally should actually be decent at bullying D.Va, but thereās really never a time when you want Doom right now. 
Ah yes PickRates, ofc, i think i utterly disagree with Geoff there, it shouldnt be just pickrates obviously but duh theres usually an obvious reason as to why a character has high pick-rates.
Even if not for balance, theres also an pretty obvious reason as to why they are always reluctant on changing Mercy.
Doom is definetly decent into D.va but ya, way too difficult to do much with him atm and youāre always better off on even Winston or mirroring the D.va if u want to challenge highground.
They gotta nerf the op ones a bit more and then give him cc immunity on his block/some buff on his ulti and maybe theres a reason to pick him i think.
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They did. He got a buff to it going into beta 1. Then it was nerfed back to what it was in OW1.
Again, thereās only 9 tanks. Being in the top half doesnāt mean you should be nerfed. Should we do this for all roles? If so, letās nerf Lucio, Ana, Kiriko, and Zen. Because weāre balancing for highest level play only and the top half of the roster.
Fine even if they did, somehow (show how little they knew how strong he is) thats not what i meant, i meant coming into OW2 his shield is unchanged, pretty much.
You see, in my opinion they should because not only tanks are too good atm, mainly these 4, its role needs more balance within itself, nerfing the top 4 fixes these 2 issues, its just the best way to go.
Yes, i would nerf these 4 characters IF they were too opressive as a role, wich i dont think they are, the issue with supports is cuz 3 of them are not fit for the game yet (Brig has a poor ult, Moira is just worse Kiriko if u can hit them daggers and Mercy is Mercy, having barely any skill-ceilling to speak of, since forever)
Both nerfs on Zaryaās and D.VAās are smaller than tiny IMO
I think the Zarya one is actually something, D.vasā¦ not so much so.
Like for Zarya is an overral ~~3.5 seconds less bubbles she has every fight.
For D.va, she does like maybe 30 less burst dmg on a slim character, on a big one like Zen it does like 15 less.
So her time to kill goes down by likeā¦0.1s or something and thats IT, very cool!