A dwindling player base and a bleeding reputation hurts the developers more than me 
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Better?
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ok, so, when they do balancing, one of the ways they balance the heros is looking at if people gain or lose SR when they switch between the heroes.
It is why people don’t tend to take up say… Torb, and go straight to GM.
BUT… if you want to prove me wrong, go take up the non aim heroes, and show me how good you do 
Because when profiles used to be open, the people who complained about “non aim heroes” were ALWAYS bad at the non aim heroes. They didn’t have the skills that they required to use them.
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ok, so, when they do balancing, one of the ways they balance the heros is looking at if people gain or lose SR when they switch between the heroes.
Even if true, irrelevant to what is being discussed.
It is why people don’t tend to take up say… Torb, and go straight to GM.
Torb is not a no-aim hero. You won’t get to GM with Torb if you can’t aim. Even streamers that did it with personalized SR gains where there would always be off-meta people hiting GM, they had to land their shots to get to GM.
Because when profiles used to be open, the people who complained about “non aim heroes” were ALWAYS bad at the non aim heroes. They didn’t have the skills that they required to use them.
That’s a lie. Anybody could pick Junkrat during busted era and exploit him. People can pick up Mercy in 3-4 games and play a passable version of her. Because her whole kit is designed exactly for that. Being easy to pick up and be very forgiving of mistakes. It takes 3 games of Moira to be able to play her at any ELO. But most people who play aim heroes find Moira braindead and despise the gameplay.
As for your “aim heroes don’t have to worry about things, they can just outshoot their way out”, that’s nonsense. As soon as you are even slightly out of position as McCree, Soldier, Hanzo, Tracer, etc. you get punished for it in one of many ways, whether it’s just stunned to death or hooked or matrixed and dove by D.Va or Winston, etc. That sure compares to having to keep track of where your team is as Mercy so that you can escape every 1.5 seconds while the lengthy self regen of 2 seconds of not taking damage kicks in just in case someone managed to damage your very misleading hitbox. I mean, at every ELO, Mercy and Moira used to be squishies that averaged least deaths per game. Imagine that, GM Mercy died less than GM Tracer. Surely, it’s the skill of the player involved and not just the hero being a crutch.
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If clicking on heads is very important to you, you’re playing the wrong game.
Oh I agree they shouldn’t replace DPS. Tank damage should be, for the most part, supplemental damage for the team (similar to most support damage).
However it’s difficult for me to imagine people are somehow suddenly feeling duped about the moba elements of this game when most of the heroes who play like that are from the original cast. Or why they would want such a hardcore FPS from this game knowing how it was designed.
I loved tf2 as much as the next guy. But what I don’t love about it is how I could run around as a soldier with a pocket medic and win games. It really felt less like TEAM Fortress 2 and more like Rocket jump simulator with a Medic strapped to my behind.
Don’t get me wrong, I wish there was more in the way of player agency in game. I think it has the tendency to be too team reliant at times sure. But a lot of the suggestions I see basically want to turn the game into 6 v 6 widow deathmatch.
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I’ve played at least 5 different MOBA titles and currently playing two and OW has more to do with Farming Simulator than MOBA as a genre.
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Like, what kind of FPS have Ultimates?..Oh APEX. But I think that game is gonna suffer the same problem in near future
No last hitting
No gold
No minions
No items
No upgrades for items
No lanes
No jungle
No being locked onto a hero
No upgrading abilities
No leveling up in the match
No stand alone turrets
So how is it played like a moba again?
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Again, Ultimates.
Not changable weapon if you need more
That’s it? That’s all that is required for it to be like a moba?
I don’t accept it personally. Sorry.
It’s like saying "Well, you can jump in Overwatch, and it is 3d, and there are platforms… so that means Overwatch is a 3d platformer!!
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When I got the game I knew it wasn’t gonna be a pure shooter… noone ever talked about it like one back then. If it was I’d probably wouln’t have gone for it because pure shooter is boring as hell. Those people crying for a “Real” shooter can go and play CS:GO or something for I care as long as they shut up about their delusions of the game having ever been a pure FPS.
Not at all.
You see, what it means is that the non aim heroes are as difficult as aim heroes.
Now, they can’t be difficult because of aim… so they are difficult in other ways.
My son in a diamond McCree, his positioning is TERRIBLE, but, he can shoot his way out of bad situations.
I played support in the open, and got to the contenders trials as a support.
I couldn’t do it as a DPS main, and he couldn’t do it as a support.
The difference is, I am good at positioning, and he is good at flick shots.
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Assuming that your aren’t solo healing as mercy, or that your dps arent running in front of your own tank barriers… =_=“
It is the problem of mixed Juice.
You can say a Juice have Apple and Orange in it
But you cant say it is Apple juice or Orange Juice.
What you are saying is like asking why does it taste like Orange when it is mixed.
Passable, but won’t climb.
DO it… damn well show me. Every time I ask for someone to show me, they go REAL quiet, and then say they don’t like playing support or some kind of bull excuse.
If Moira is so simple, go use her to climb up in SR… I double dog dare you to try.
Because, back when people didn’t have private profiles, I’d go back and look at people who made these claims, and they ALWAYS lost. Every single one of them.
Go prove me wrong. be the first to do it. Rather than being all “ohhhhh they take no skill”.
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The only no-aim heroes are Mercy, Symmetra, Moira, Brigitte
In most ranks, swapping to any of these heroes will net you a gain of SR. There’s a reason why no-aim heroes typically have average or better than average winrates relative to rank average whereas aim-intensive heroes have noticeably worse than average at lower ranks and only approach average at higher ranks. Tracer being a fantastic example of that.
My son in a diamond McCree, his positioning is TERRIBLE, but, he can shoot his way out of bad situations.
n=1
But typically, you don’t get to shoot your way out of bad positioning. You get matrixed and erased as McCree. That’s how it works. In fact, you are dependant on the Mercy pocket most of the time. There’s a reason why McCree is a hero that has one of the worst winrates in the game, even in GM and has had it for a long time.
I played support in the open, and got to the contenders trials as a support.
n=1
And OD is a shateshow, especially if you are in a sparesly populated region.
I couldn’t do it as a DPS main, and he couldn’t do it as a support.
He likely despises the role.
And you’re probably exaggerating his “Bad positioning”
McCree requires more positioning than Mercy and is punished much harder for being out of position, even if for a moment.
I can’t disagree there. I’m in OCE… it is a total ‘shateshow’ here. 
I REALLY am not. If he didn’t tilt, take bad positions all the time, and try to take fights he couldn’t possibly win, he could do REALLY well.
I’ll see if I can get a vod of him playing, he looks like a silver player using an aim bot… I swear to god…
Why would I waste 10 hours of my life just to prove something to you?
I despise playing support, that’s not excuse, that’s the truth
90% of my playtime in the game is on DPS. The remainder is Roadhog and Zarya. I don’t fill and don’t intend to fill. I didn’t buy the game to play support, especially not characters like Mercy, whose playstyle I immensely despise. I am a proud DPS main.
I am fairly confident that I could climb to Masters just by one-tricking Moira. Maybe I even do it at some point. But I don’t have to do anything to prove it to you. Statistics back-up what I’m saying. Take the winrates of aim-intensive characters and compare them to rank averages. Then do the same thing for non-aim characters. And then do it for those inbetween. You will see exactly the trend that I’m mentioning.
Ok, I’ll do exactly that. I’m a data scientist by trade :). And I love doing this stuff.
A quick look at global win rate show (of the heroes with a pick rate) the top 3 are Brigitte, Ashe and Zen.
Brigitte isn’t aim based, but Ashe and Zen are kind the definition of aim based heroes.
I mean you can get quite far with Zen by orb juggling, but not at the ranks he is typically played at. But Ashe absolutely requires aim to work.
I’ll do more of a look with better tools when I get home.
Also I’ll want to pull up historic rates. Taking into account changes of metas etc.
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