Right. One overhaul. One rework. A nerf or buff isn’t a rework, or every other hero would have more than a dozen reworks under their belt by now.
That would be… her entire existence aside from when Moth Meta/Poke Meta was a thing, and people were talking about this just as much back then. Mercy has always been non-meta or near-meta, aside from the couple times she was meta (Moth and then Poke)… but this subject has persisted regardless of that.
I don’t think so. I think if the developers committed to Mercy being a single-target healer and Moira being a multi-target healer (in addition to buffing Moira and/or nerfing other healers because realistically she’s flaming garbage right now anyway), then they could both have their unique advantages while still competing with one another.
I think another rework could work but I doubt people will be open to the idea. Heck people were screaming doomsday at that 55 hps buff she got.
When matchmaking is working which is admittedly not every game you’ll have a team as good as the enemy and valk will have impact.
If your team doesn’t use valk well. That’s not valk being bad that’s the game being one-sided. Imo, this gaslighting a normal game issue into a mercy problem.
As for you having no control, there is good timing on valk and bad. Like I’d consider using valk 6v6 to creating an advantage with insane healing/dmg boost the best way to use it and using it to correct a death or mistake a bad way to use it. Like you said you can’t get a 100% success rate with good timing but it does matter and that is within your control.
As for the player agency thing, I’ll just disagree, in open queue being a healer was impactful because you were a healer and your skill on that healer mattered more. Now you’ll have 2 healers always and it’s more about team synergy than skill.
Now I’m not saying mercy shouldn’t get more player agency but to be like it is an ult you have no control over and think it’s the worst support ult isn’t a balanced argument. It’s just complaining.
It’s a problem with both. The other supports I mentioned can still generate immense value without depending solely upon their team’s competence. They can still carry the game with a bad team. Mercy on the other hand, can only carry if she’s played with a good team, which then raises questions as to whether or not she’s even carrying at all if her team isn’t deficient to begin with. If Mercy needs her teammates to pull their weight so she can carry, then who’s really carrying?
Sure. Using Valkyrie into a 6v6 is fantastic… Until the enemy team deploys literally any ultimate of their own. So, you know, any fight where you have Valkyrie.
And to say that popping Valkyrie when you’re down just one player is a bad way to use it only proves my point. We have basic abilities in the game than can more than compensate for a downed ally (see Biotic Grenade). An “ultimate” ability that cannot does not merit its title.
Most of my competitive games pre-rework were 2-2-2 anyway, because I was already playing in ranks where people (generally) cared about team composition. Regardless of that, if anything, the fact that Mercy could reliably carry her game while solo-healing back then is a testament to how far her player agency has fallen since. Today, she’s relegated to a weapon attachment for the team’s DPS as her primary function. If her DPS don’t get value, the neither does she.
I’m personally fine with the Mercy rework
If you think biotic nad can more than compensate for an entire hero or it’s better than Valk. I’m just out. I can’t agree with you and I can’t really discuss it because to me it’s a illogical point. Good luck with w/e you hope to achieve.
You are the one arguing for being a main healer
I am just saying she “usually” will have gold healing
I know this isn’t the place to complain about how I never see close games anymore. But I haven’t seen a game be close in my elo in ages it’s always one team crushes the other and the game is over within 5 minutes. I know some people on the forums will be quick to say “but in GMs”. Shouldn’t the match maker make interesting matches at ALL level of play though.
I mean a lot of people would say that the fact that biotic nade can do anti healing means it’s better than a lot of support ults. She basically negate healing and boost healing on a target on cooldown, meaning that she can somewhat counter Zen’s ult, Mercy’s ult (the healing part), Moira’s ult (again the part where it heals) and every healing abilities in the game.
For example, a good anti nade in a Grav that has been negated by a Zen ult means that basically only Zen might remain at the end of whatever is happening.
Issue of Valkyrie is that all of it’s value is spread too thin. Can your teammates consistently make good use of damage boost? No, they can’t. Does fight even last full 15 seconds? No, usually it’s all over within 10 or less.
Mainly because it’s value is burst, that is concentrated in place and time. That is what makes it better. In this game you need bursts of power to change direction of fight.
Except that Ana holds the single target high throughput niche, and we also know that such high throughput needs to be balanced by some means, be it inconsistency and/or uptime limits like ammo/pee capacity. Mercy’s beam leaves little room for that, and high consistency is going to inherently favor pocketing simply because we now have too many AoE heals covering the rest.
As is, I don’t think we can improve baseline heals without mechanics that explicitly require juggling to get it’s full value.
When executed well sure it’s stronger than a ult but the execution requires a lot skill, postioning and awarness.
It is like how a widow landed headshot is stronger than a ult but the requirements to land the hs makes it balanced.
Like for grav example if a team can’t block the nade… It means Hanzo or Widow can still get kills. Junk can combo shot to mine to get kills. Zen can discord and repeatedly headshot to counter the Trans healing so a team can focus. It doesn’t mean these things are better than a ult it just means there is more context to it.
And I am saying that she usually will not and should not have gold healing.
I am not sure I have ever disagreed with you more strongly in our years of back and forth on the subject of Mercy than I do with the statement quoted above
Right now, yes, because Mercy isn’t able to compete with her in that regard without becoming overpowered (thanks to E-Resurrect). Pre-rework, Mercy still held that title. She was still a better solo-healer than Ana, and that wasn’t because she was better at staying alive. It was because she could deliver more raw healing more reliably than Ana could, and at the time 60 HPS was enough to compete with the damage that was being flung around. Soldier:76 was considered straight overpowered with 20 damage/shot, not just “pretty good”, and that’s before we include the cooldown reduction to his Helix Rocket since then.
Ana’s niche was (and realistically should be, for the sake of the balance and diversity of the support category) burst healing and utility. Healing throughput was second to that, while Mercy reigned supreme in that sector, and with good reason; that was Mercy main focus.
Right. Hence Ana specializing in burst healing rather than throughput, although the developers made the stupid decision of blurring that line when they increased her ammo capacity while nerfing her healing/shot.
Consistency isn’t what determines whether an ability/hero is used to pocket or not. The numbers are. If you don’t have the ability to keep your team alive with a given healing output, then there’s not point in trying. You leave that to the people who can do that. If Mercy had the output to keep her team alive, then she wouldn’t be used to pocket anywhere near as much as she currently is. Nerfing Mercy’s healing output (along with damage creep) is what turned her from a main-healer into a pocket-bot, not increasing her consistency.
That’s a self-fulfilling conditional. If you increase Mercy’s healing output such that she can function as a main-healer again, juggling beams becomes the best way to play her.
These are exactly the things that other heroes have that Mercy doesn’t; they have agency over their abilities. They can control how valuable they are by their own actions. Mercy cannot. Mercy is not limited by her ability to time the execution flawlessly, or her ability to land the perfect shot; she’s limited by the outputs of the kit itself.
K.
all characters are limited by their kits…this is not exclusive to Mercy and as such I have no idea why anyone would attempt to pin this solely on Mercy
further, Mercy has agency, and she (or rather the player selecting her) is in full control of her actions
Thank you, Captain Obvious. Now, if you please, reread what you quoted and then formulate a statement that is actually relevant to my assertion.
Agency is not what control players have over their character. Agency is what control players have over the value they generate. Mercy has very low agency.
the derision is noted
the statement is relevant to what it replied to; and it tands as it is, with no changes needed