Actually I’ve seen a lot of support tank players in QPC. Not every support/tank like roleq
and many do… with qpc and 222 there is a place for everyone 
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I thought I’d love 222 but it feels very punishing to people who always flex. I enjoyed flexing and now that’s not possible anymore. I just have to rely on teammates even more than I used to
i never actually said that there were no support/tank players in QPC, or that every support/tank like roleq. my statement stems from the whole “QPC isn’t the same as ‘Freedom Queue’” that people have been throwing around. It goes like “if you don’t like 222 then go QPC” then they go “But there’s so little tank/support players there all games are like 4-6DPS (which ironically was the usual stereotype of old QP). QPC isn’t Freedom Queue.”
You missed the point. Even with independent role queues, and role ranks, you’re still integrated into the same matches. There is a coupling. Its still one big ladder that bins people by % along a skill distribution.
When you carry/ruin games on one role, you carry/ruin that game for people on another role. Your good/bad role impacts other people in their role. Your performance on one role imparts change to all roles in that match. Its coupled.
So I can wait 28 mins to get into a game with someone who spent 2 minutes and doesn’t even care to tryhard because they get to go agane (and i don’t). I sweat and tryhard and still get ranked lower because I’m the one who is somehow bad.
222 actually makes it easier to throw lol. You can totally destroy people’s aspirations of ranking up by just straight up not caring on 1-2 of your role select choices.
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That’s true but now we have Hog WB into double barrier and Mei so we came full circle.
Not saying it’s every game but a bad player is a bad player.
Never said they didn’t. Just pointing out there is a great amount of support/tank players in my QPC games. All my QPC games have either 2tanks or 2 supports (or one of each).
Never encountered anyone who uses this argument. If they do; that’s just plain dumb.) The arguments i’ve seen which is a bit similar to your example is “people don’t take it serious”.
I agree.
oh trust me, there are. iirc, it s in one of the longer threads against 222. i’d quote it, but the thought of going back to that thread and seeing that argument makes me feel sick
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“Majority of support/tank players did not like the apparent dps fiesta”
they could just leave instead of whining and crying, couldn’t they…? 
this argument goes both ways, bud.
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Original post is ridiculous. I dont mind the 5 to 10 minute queues now to play my main role. Just glad I am no longer forced to flex because of the other 3 to 5 selfish dps clowns. I hated being the only one willing to flex to try and give us a chance. As a dps main who always flexed due to other’s selfishness and unwillingness to switch to help the team, role queue is great.
Indeed I am missing your point. I flat out do not understand it. Consider the example below:
Person A: 3000 SR DPS, 2800 SR Support, 2200 Tank.
Person B: 1500 SR DPS, 2000 SR Support, 2200 Tank.
Both players play Tank in a given match. What is the difference between these two players on Tank? I’ll tell you. NOTHING!
Now imagine before role que. Player A climbs to 3000 SR on DPS, but once in a while, he has to fill on tank. He’s gonna also have the Diamond emblem on tank. See the problem here?
The aformentioned Person A above, is no more carrying/ruining games at gold, than the other gold players in his matches, regardless if the other gold players are playing their best roles or not. They’re still all at the same rank.
If you suspect someone of deliberately throwing, then report them. 2-2-2 doesn’t suddenly take away the rule that deliberately throwing is wrong and bannable.
The point is that when your SR was 1 number you had to balance your tryhard sweaty games vs. your derpy ‘soft throwing’ ones (and everything that could imply: playing off-role, not caring, not tryharding, etc.).
With 1 number it was (mostly) you who determined that number and all your actions affected that.
Now you can just isolate and sacrifice 2x the number of games and not care, but you’re still disrupting the overall ladder / playerbase. With a single account you can be 2x the smurf.
Of course these actions are wrong and reportable, but people will go about them subtly and/or unwittingly. Bringing in 222 without actual mmr resets only makes the matter worse.
Its an independent role queue that gets merged into a role-coupled match, which itself is part of a living ladder ecosystem. You have way more of an attack surface to disrupt things now.
less than 10% of players use forum and they have very different mentality than other 90%…
those 90% players just silently uninstall game when they dont like something =)
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lol @ calling tanks and supports the selfish role when it’s instalock all DPS why we even have RQ to force a balanced game.
Why wouldn’t people make a forum if they like it so much
Ah okay. I see your point. I get it now.
What I don’t get, however, is why you see this as a good thing. Yeah, we had to balance our tryhard matches with our “soft throwing” ones. I’m sorry, how was this a good thing? And how is it bad that we don’t have to do this anymore?
Well the “not caring” part sounds like you’re just projecting. I mean, you have no statistical data that people will actually do this more frequently. Or do you? If not, it’s just your opinion.
An attack surface? Okay sure. But you have less ways to actually cause disorder throughout the system. i.e. the absolute headaches that was 3+ DPS instalocking, is now impossible.
You might have more of an attack surface for a skyscraper vs a jinga tower, but the latter has far less structural integrity. 2-2-2 is structure. It shapes order from chaos.
When arguing about critical system issues it is better practice to look at model descriptors and structural facts - reasoning with potentials/possibilities rather than data-driven probabilities. I don’t need data or opinion to say ‘X can occur and things should be designed to avoid X’.
Now people have 3 separate degrees of freedom on which they are able to shift other people’s ranked/rated experience.
Thats more impactful because the system is now ‘over-constrained’. The problem is exacerbated in lower ranks, where the ‘soft throwing’ is more likely to happen (by definition of being lower ranked). There is no offsetting degree-of-freedom to swap/flex/fill in real-time to solve a ‘soft throw’. No no one can compensate for these locked channels.
The locked roles coupled with ridiculous dps queue times actually create less ladder mobility overall, and expose players to more sabotage risks.
Its a trash design and they should have consulted some systems design experts before spitballing ideas amongst game devs and vocal minorities. You can’t be more out of touch than what we have now.
everyone blames it on “toxic dps mains,” but the real reason 2-2-2 was implemented was because they legit couldn’t balance the game to get rid of GOATs, which was caused by, among other things, snipers getting mobility buffs and a support designed to 2v1 and come out smelling like a rose.
They made 2-2-2 role queue because they couldnt balance the game
Can we stop pretending that they were the only selfish ones? Not like the people demanding 5 random strangers to conform to their arbitrary standards were any better.
At least when the DPS players were allowed to be “selfish” the game had variety.
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Goats was dying off before 2/2/2 was put in anyways. We were already seeing a shift towards bunker style comps, with Orisa being a top pick, despite the fact that she’s horrid in standard Goats.
I’m not saying it was an improvement for balance, but Goats definitely wasn’t the sole nor main reason that the system was put in.
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