Let’s see… Lucio can do different things at the same time and has speed boost and insane environment kills due to his mobility. Zen has the most powerful supportive ult right after mass rez and has insane damage and damage boost (discord) and can have all his orbs activated at the same time while he is doing other things. Did I mention hps? Nope, because that’s not the point. Did you play this game anytime?
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Mccrees ult:
Requires lengthy time in LoS of targets to build uo damage necessary- during which time mccree can hardly move and glows like a christmas tree, and maintains requiring LoS when activated after the damage is built up to actually do anything
Which;
Allows shields to block it
Defense matrixes to eat it.
Bubbles to absorb its damage
Mei walls to block it off.
Wont work on otherwise inaccessible targets even with LoS- meis ice block, wraith form, fade, etc
Can be deflect back and kill the mccree
Allows a HUGE window to literally just avoid it by walking behind. Well. Anything.
Etc and etc
There are a BILLION ways to deal with dead eye, with most of the cast having their own personal means of defense against it.
Now remind me again what ANY if these would do to a mercy using mass rez?
A fat nothing.
Many heroes have inherent means to deal with damage in this game.
Mass res is an entirely different type of interaction- and NOT something heroes have a means to deal with.
Rein: “mercy is using mass res. Dont worry ill put my shiel- oh that did nothing”
“El oh el ill use my defense matri- oh theyre all alive. Gee gee winky face”
“Ice wall comin u- oh. Theyre all alive anyways”
“genji is with you! twirls blade frantically… i need healing”
Yea. No.
Mass res did not have the same degree of counter play. Not even close.
Its ONLY “counter play” was “kill mercy before she accelerated in at 20 mps from up to 30 meters away before she hits Q!”. In the right order, of course. Because focusing mercy first / out of order meant shed respawn as you finished with her team, and shed get them anyways.
You want to compare it to dead eye?
Sure.
When they make dead eye kill everyone instantly. In range. With no LoS requirements. And it makes him invulnerable. And it can no monger be deflected. Or eaten by defense matrix. And kills intangibile heroes.
And they buff roll to move mccree up to thirty meters.
Then we can talk.
And ill GLADLY tell you all the counter play this new dead eye has. “Just kill mccree before he can use dead eye 4head!”
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Debatable if it’s the most powerful.
Plus it’s negated.
Besides, Zen is the most immobile hero in the game, can be one clipped, he can’t yeet himself to his friends to save his life.
One day this delusion will fall, and you will realize Mercy was always a healbot, before and after rework.
I still like her tho, and I often have fun playing her.
Thanks god they nerfed the mercy ult. That nerf allowed all the others supports to breath again and be more present in the meta. Mercy was a character design error at the begining imo and she is just fine now.
Don’t forget to refresh his roll CD afterwards because otherwise McCree can’t survive the 1.5 seconds he is 1v6, and we can’t have that.
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Counterplay for mass rez in this video. Go to 7:56-8:11. The same Junkrat did, Mccree could do it. It was called saving ults and reacting to a reactive ult.
Oh, and remember that people want changes to it, and even if it came as it was, now we had Hammond’s ult that wouldn’t be activated during the i-frames and new Torb.
No, sorry, it seems the only one being delusional here it’s you. I still don’t know what Lucio and Zen had to do here. Yes, Zen has some weaknesses and that’s great because if not, he would need a rework or the Mercy treatment, and it’s clear that the last choice is the worst you can choose.
Finally, if you are one of the 2-3 lucky people in the world who still enjoy playing her, that’s great. Lucky you. Sadly, as her pick/winrates are showing, Mercy was never worse than nowadays (pickrates around 1% in some ranks and only picked for pocketing Pharah/Widow). Also, no, I know how I was playing Mercy, and I played her since before Ana’s release. She wasn’t a healbot until the revert started. Then she became firstly a rezbot (spam rez) and after a lot of nerfs, a dull healbot. Now she is a rezbot again, since her healing is not good enough.
Nope, she is underwhelming and completely niche with terrible pickrates and pocketing Pharah and Widow being the only reasons for picking her (next to having no idea about the other supports). That’s not how you balance a character. Valk and E rez are design errors, that’s true. That was proved during alpha (valk) and beta (stationary rez). Turning a so powerful ult into an E ability meant a huge buff, and that was a huge mistake too.
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Neat.
But theres a reason these highlights are in a highlight reel.
They were exceptional- not the norm.
Theres a reason you dont see “its high noon!”, followed by a shield/defense matrix / wall / whatever in these highlight reels.
Because it happens.
A lot.
When talking about counter play a degree of reliability is important.
expecting to wipe everyone a second time with a junk rat tire because the team had just been grouped up and wiped with a grav surge is awesome. But its not realistic “counter play”
Does it happen?
Sure
And widows can sniper doomfist mid rocket punch.
But I wouldnt go around saying thats how you can “counter” rocket punch however.
And this still boils down to the “just kill it” argument for counter player.
We have a billion tools to handle other things. And only had one to desl with res.
I dont miss mas res. Never will.
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The point with mass rez was that it hadn’t its counter set on stone. It wasn’t like Sym’s “pick Winston” or Roadhog’s “pick Reaper” or Pharah’s “pick Widow” or Junkrat’s “pick Pharah”. No. Why? Because mass rez didn’t counter characters, it countered ults and huge kills, so it was an abstract counter. That means that it had abstract counters like that video’s. However, there were more. If Mercy’s team was splitted, you could chase them one by one without even using ults.
Anyway, once more, let’s go to the present, because the game has changed, we have more heroes now. Let’s check them. Hammond’s (Wrecking Ball’s) ult is just the definition of counter for mass rez set on stone. Unless her team was splitted (and in this case you don’t need ults, just divide and win strategy) you only need to mine the corpses and see how if Mercy dares to hide and rez, everyone will blow up. New Torb seems to work very well for that too. So, even in the improbable case of mass rez coming back exactly as it was, it would have easy counters now.
Well, I hate the “just don’t shoot him” argument for countering/playing around Genji’s deflect and I’ll never call for it to be removed.
That’s on you, but sadly, E rez is not working and will never work, and rez won’t be removed, so there is only one option left, and no, I’m not talking about bringing back mass rez exactly as it was. I’m talking about bringing a new iteration of that ult, because rez will only work as Mercy’s ult.
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Mass rez with invuln had no “counter” play.
Killing Mercy before she rezzed is not countering rez. She still has it available, you still have to keep it in mind.
Killing everyone for a second time is just killing everyone for a second time. It is not counter play.
Mass Rez value was dictated by the time and circumstance it was used. All you could do is try to create an environment that decreases that value by spacing out kills, or making sure they dont all die together. There is no changing the value once the Q was pressed.
The only comparable ult is EMP. Still EMP only effects alive players. Mass Rez effected only dead players, making it truly unique.
There is no hiding mercy fallacy. Sorry to say.
Good news
You can shoot him
From the side. From the back. Or you can hit him with AoE abilities. Or any kind of energy weapon. Or…
Abstract, and not frequently practical.
And many others, as well. A huge contributing factor for why it was changed.
Im aware of what youre talking about in regards tk what you want for mercys res. But a larhe portion of the conversation was directed at how it “was”- which is largely what i was responding to.
1 Like
Ah i can finally post again…
But now OT:
Just look at this, one 4 man rez and one 5 man rez:
Mute sound.
This is not okay.
So, I am happy Mass Rez is gone.
You can say " But this was rare and don’t happen so often…" but the fact it was doable is the problem.
There was nothing the other team could do…
As Reaper, I need to get close to them and they can:
-
Flash
-
Stun
-
Shield
-
Shoot
to counter the ult…
As Mercy you needed to just be near your dead teammates, it did not matter where.
Oh and pls tell me how to counter the Mercy in the vid? Woud be nice to know.
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Valkyrie is the replacement ultimate to Mass Resurrection.
Yeah, but bad news, he will never use deflect and turn his back for you, he will use it in front of you, face to face.
Oh, and he can even deflect ultimates like dragon, rip tire, high noon, grav, etc. He can even turn 6 ults against the enemy team, or headshots, or… remember when you could pick multiple Bastions and a single Genji was enough for destroying that team? Anyway, let’s not waste more time with this, that’s out of tophic.
Once more, if mass rez was so uncounterable and so powerful, why she wasn’t picked at all at pro ranks?
Too few indeed. Not even a half of the playerbase. Polls have been mad, even while playing in solo queue and the result is a consensus. There are way more people missing mass rez than enjoying its lose. That hatred was encouraged by some streamers, and funny thing, many of them have changed of mind or regretted their words at some point. Even Seagull.
Well, how it was it needed changes, but never a revert back to all the worst mistakes from her past. That was completely out of the table. Valk is, was and will be a terrible design as an ult, and the same goes for E rez but as an E ability. Since a lot of people are trying to search a solution for this cataclysm of revert, I’m just saying what the most of the people seems to be calling for: a balanceable design (the only one where rez can be balanced) with changes, a real E ability that doesn’t feel like an ult already and fair healing. I’m just calling for the definition of Mercy to come back.
She is supposed to be a strong single target mobile consistent main support focused on healing/mobility. She shouldn’t be a cheap but weak intermittently mobile consistent off support focused on going dps and rezzing people. That’s not Mercy.
Exploits are doable, and that’s a sad thing. But what’s the solution for that when only a bunch of people are doing that, so it doesn’t affect the whole playerbase? Easy. Tweak it. Not destroy the entire game for a year by rezzing two monsters from the past, aka valk and stationary rez. The results are obvious, a lot of people have left (around 7% of the playerbase) and the game has become worse and worse during the last year since the revert started.
Valkirie is not an ultimate. Valkirie is pure pointless garbage and the worst design ever together with E rez. It must die for ever and this time never come back…
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1: I never said mas rez was uncounterable.
I said it didnt have the same degree of counterplay.
2: I never said mas res was “so powerful”
3: a heroes capacity to inflience a match exceeds the impact of their ultimate. Mercy has always struggled with weak mid game
4: it was an entirely different game back then. Many heros were notably different, as was the meta.
I can agree that the game is different now. Indeed, I’ve told you that now, you would be able to easily counter that old mass rez with Hammond’s ult. Having real counterplay means a problem gone in this case. Anyway, I can agree it could have even more, that’s why I’m suggesting changes to it.
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Heads up, you were posted to the hate harassment hateful harassment sub (hi Jet Mari!) OWCirclejerk by one of the dudes kids who got banned for trolling.
Oh goodness I got my own post, I feel so special!
Edit 2: Made the front page of their safe space, feel so honored.
It was replaced, during the alpha, by mass Res. Seems to me like this:
Is not that meanginful when coming from Blizzard.
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Lmao wow they seem pretty desperate
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They are. After the MercyMain subreddit privated themselves, they’ve seem to have gotten bored. ![:joy:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/joy.png?v=5" ":joy:")
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Alpha isn’t the same as the released game.