Mystery heroes has become whoever gets Brigitte first. I remember one game, where we got a Brigitte on our team and we started dominating the other team. Then, they ended up with two Brigittes on their team and steam rolled us back to win.
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Dive was stage 1/2/3.
Tracer was the centerpiece of every single team before brigitte was released. It’s why the Fuel were so bad and why Sinatraa on the Shock was paid so much. They’re an awful dive team because they didn’t have a good tracer and didn’t know how to play around one. While stage 1/2/3 featured widowmakers in it, she was never the basis for the teams.
Stage 4 has been 100% about the widow duels. The team with the best widowmaker has been the team that won every single time.
So you consider it dive only if Tracer is ran? Interesting approach.
lmao
fuel have effect, who is one of the best tracers in the league. dude straight up hard carried NV for the longest time on her. tracer was not their issue - their issue is that they don’t have a flex DPS who can play relevant dive heroes and no competent d.va player (until seagull started grinding her) - and no winston player for the first two stages. the latter is way more important for dive.
also… didn’t know tracer was the centrepiece of beyblade and triple tank comps. thought that would be… you know, reaper and the tanks. learn something new every day i guess.
yes, and outside of the widow duels, the tanks… the players doing the majority of the teamfighting… were diving. sure as hell isn’t widow who is forcing cooldowns out of the mercy.
but genji doesnt counter bastion
in the early days of overwatch, bastion was hard countered because he had no passive dmg reduction and alot of batsions would just out right react slow to the deflect
as time went on, not only did bastions get wiser but they now reduce i believe its 30% of the dmg done to them
so if the bastion fires long enough to do 100 dmg to genji but he deflects it that will hit bastion for 70
the real counters for bastion are heroes with long range that can also burst
so new hanzo is fantastic, soldier with his burst fire+rocket is great
tracer can do it, by shooting him and then doing a pulse bomb (tho i dont recommend it)
other then that its all about the flank (widow can flank and hit the crit box but its not always a good option)
there are no hard counters in overwatch, even the brig hard counter isnt a real hard counter its damn close
brig doesnt remove tracer/genji from the game, it just makes there life WAY harder then it should
like a winston could dive a widow but the widow could still perform. but if a winston AND a genji dove widow then theres trouble
brig applys the same effect as if there was a winston+ half a genji on the widow
by herself, so you can still perform with brig in the match, its just sad it was built so poorly
Ins’t it like 6 or 7 meters?
You think that’s a large distance to cover? Lol?
This is the OW forum equivilent of sticking your fingers into your ears and shouting “LALALALA NOT LISTENING!”
Skill is relative, and skill floor/ceiling is an oversimplification. Brigitte may be easy and limited in her kit’s applications, but everything is still relative.
She’s not this magical salve like you make her out to be. She’s the centerpiece of an accidental dominant meta that was going to happen eventually regardless. Without snipers being broken by sniper mains and OTs, she won’t be a problem.
And no, skill doesn’t matter as long as the reaper player has aim above the level of a dead fish. her hitbox is downright massive for a female support, and is second in size only to Zenyatta. Her shoulders blot out the freaking sun. She’s not difficult to shoot.
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Their lack of a good winston is on xQc. He did that himself. And like I said, their tracer issue was they they didn’t know how to play around one. I get the feeling that Effect is a bit “difficult” to work with, and that the first fuel lineup had issues with people butting heads.
And beyblade and triple tanks comps aren’t dive. I’m not sure what your point is there.
There is such a thing as “hybrid meta” or “half-dive”. Just because this widow meta is built on the back of dive, doesn’t mean it’s not all about the widowmakers.
I mean, don’t take it from me. The professional analysts who actually make money analyzing the pro games are saying that the Widowmakers are deciding the games.
the beyblade and triple tank comps was against your statement that tracer has been the centrepiece of every comp. she was C tier at best before dive.
and yeah… they didn’t know how to play around tracer. they didn’t know how to play around anyone on dive heroes. They had a DPS player feeding his brains out on Winston and Mickie not following him in. Then you had Chips frontlining as Zen. they were a mess. effect was the only one ever actually doing anything, and all the games they won they won off the back of his tracer.
tracer play was not the issue with the fuel. it was literally everything else.
this doesn’t magically make the comps not dive. the tanks are setting up engagements using mobility and physically getting themselves into the team. thus they are diving.
widow doesn’t decide everything anyway. this is still overwatch and DPS heroes really don’t do a ton at the top level. otherwise the mayhem would be a top 3 team, since they had saya.
if you really want to be a purist, we haven’t seen dive since season 5, since Lucio is never run. classic dive includes speed boost to force engagements even without leap/boosters.
I appreciate the in depth analysis which is definitely pretty interesting. I think that’s why they avoided playing Pine a lot earlier in the season. He’s a gifted player mechanically but not the strongest when it comes to the strategic aspect of the game.
And I agree Brigitte is a solvable problem.
Hm I learned that Effect is a bad Tracer, it’s only dive if Tracer is ran, and Widow duels weren’t deciding maps in stage 3.
Yeah… I’m just gonna disagree with all that and leave it at that.
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probably for the best.
don’t see the point in arguing with someone who thinks rein/zarya/hog/tracer is dive but Winston/dva/widow/pharah isn’t.
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Well to be fair, Blizzard had said the wanted the game to be about counterpicking since the beginning
Yeah but 2 years worth of evidence shows that most players don’t actually want to. When you see the number of one trick players, or players with the vast majority of time on a small number of heroes, it’s very clear that the players choose their hero based on favored play styles rather than trying to counter pick. It’s mostly evidence to suggest that the design of the game is flawed and should be driven in a direction that more closely related to what the players want to do.
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Well you see. There is this thing called the objective that I have to capture. And guess what is sitting on that objective. Brigitte. And if try to accomplish my mission to capture said objective, i’ll just get shield bashed and flailed into submission every five seconds
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Uhm, Brigitte hard counters Reaper?
Brigitte needs to overextend at least in front of a sentry Bastion to be realistically taken down, but usually you need more than one person.
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someone doesnt know anything, its quite easy to deal with brigitte, even as tanks. Hanzos the true stale maker of this meta, anyone knows this from owl.
Brigitte is annoying to fight, but thats it, you need to play vs her just how you would play vs a mei/sym/other unfun characters. Even good genjis/tracers arent having much of a problem vs brigitte herself
Something called positioning/game sense
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OWL certainly adapted. And thanks to that we had the most interesting and varies meta of the whole season. Stage 4 was by far the most interesting to watch.
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Requiring skill to counter isn’t a counter, all hitscans in the game counter genji/tracer if it were that simple, but yet you routinely see Tracer running circles around Mcree. Hyper mobility is a crutch just as strong as stuns are.
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yep, no longer dive dive and more dive, its dive on some maps, and brigitte comps on others, even then other characters like pharah see play, it is easily the most varied a meta has been.
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Oh God. Is this where we’re headed? A removal of individual skill from the equation?
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