Tank...... the entire match is just based on Tank

[Huevoasesino-11543]

@Simps4Stolas-1567

loud incorrect buzzer

If you become as annoying with that over used joke as trickster im gonna lose it.

@Simps4Stolas-1567

seen more OTP’s on tank than any other role

Then explain why the mercy pocketing the widow missing all her shots wont swap to ana to nade the hog, or kiri to cleanse nade off me?

[YourGuardian-21643]

@LazyDragon-21827

Games are decided by which team can keep their tank alive. This is not just the skill of the tank. In fact, it is more about the skill of the supports, both staying alive themselves and keeping their tank healed and using their abilities to rescue the tank when needed.

Very little actually comes down the tank skill I find. They are totally reliant on their supports. If 1 team manages to kill a support first they have a massive advantage because it is then easier for them to kill the tank, and once the tank is gone the fight is probably won.

it’s also on DPS, because if your DPS can’t threaten enemy supports their tank stays immortal and if they can’t threaten enemy DPS their DPS can just keep shooting your tank or someone else

@AngryPuckmen-1981

6 dps in a game, and in a 6v6 format.

u mean kind of format only viable in Silver and below?

[ThiccBuddha-1468]

Blaming an individual in a team based game will always be silly. Anyone who actually believes that is delulu. In a team based game, the team matters. Not the Doom. Not the Moira. The TEAM. You win as a team and you lose as a team.

[AngryPuckmen-1981]

@YourGuardian-21643

u mean kind of format only viable in Silver and below?

I wouldn’t even say it’s viable down their, I use to be in gold and below in early 6v6. And even a single tank could stall chokes for minutes at a time. Doubly so if they knew how to actually attack, and wasn’t a shield window all game.

[ThiccBuddha-1468]

I actually stalled a point long enough for my team to return by shielding. Homies were OBSESSED with trying to get behind me and I broke they ankles with my shimmy till the break of dawn, yeah!

[Abzy1200-2722]

Yep, no matter how much “balancing” you do for 5v5, it’s never going to work because you’re forcing the work of two people onto one person and it creates a rock-paper-scissors hell that other roles don’t have to deal with because there is someone else with you in that role to offset your heroes weakness/shortcomings. Having 1 tank puts too much pressure on one person and ignores the implications that a decision like this has on off tanks. Not only were most of the tanks in the game designed with 6v6 in mind, basically the entire roster was. This is why the issue with 5v5 is systematic and not a balancing issue and people can’t spin the argument on people who want 6v6 back.

[YourGuardian-21643]

@AngryPuckmen-1981

I wouldn’t even say it’s viable down their, I use to be in gold and below in early 6v6. And even a single tank could stall chokes for minutes at a time. Doubly so if they knew how to actually attack, and wasn’t a shield window all game.

I know, I played 6v6, it’s a better gamemode,

anyways, 6DPS never worked, not even when you brought S76, you really needed the game to be truly onesided for that to work, and by then it wouldn’t even matter what team composition you had basically…

[AngryPuckmen-1981]

@YourGuardian-21643

I know, I played 6v6, it’s a better gamemode,

I’m just going to say the forums back when 6v6 was a thing were a lot more heated, and constantly complaining about every fundamental aspect of the game. Were as these days it’s like can we fix (insert x hero/ability/map) and the devs go ok, and sends a fix in a weeks/months time frame. Depending on the change.

Sure we have bring back 6v6’rs but like that’s nothing compared to the mercy debate we had pre and post rework.

@YourGuardian-21643

anyways, 6DPS never worked, not even when you brought S76, you really needed the game to be truly onesided for that to work, and by then it wouldn’t even matter what team composition you had basically…

Yerp agreed.

[Simps4Stolas-1567]

@Huevoasesino-11543

Then explain why the mercy pocketing the widow missing all her shots wont swap to ana to nade the hog, or kiri to cleanse nade off me?

explain why the Doom going into hog keeps punching hog, getting hooked and obliterated?

why is the rein pinning into backline and dying every fight?

lol this is a circular argument

[Jacvk-11960]

I said supports are the MOST important because a bad combo equals death no matter what you pick tank-wise. DPS combinations (outside of the hard meta dps heroes )only matter if the tank survives. If supports like baptiste, kiriko, etc. had fewer easy to execute survivability options/ weaker immortalities, I would agree with the dps statement.

[Silence-14776]

@Jaxtaro-1120

When you counter a tank, it can be done by a single player, and the only option is to swap. The pressure is on the tank player, and tanks cannot “main” their hero, because the tank needs to be proficient in all variations of their role.

This is a direct consequence of 5v5

I know and that’s why it sucks. I hate that fact too. You can’t play who you want on tank, you have to play based on the enemy tank. So yes 6v6 is better. But it will never come back because queue times would be unsustainable. No one plays tank. It’s the least popular role by a significant margin.

[YourGuardian-21643]

@AngryPuckmen-1981

I’m just going to say the forums back when 6v6 was a thing were a lot more heated, and constantly complaining about every fundamental aspect of the game.

wrong, not really

@AngryPuckmen-1981

Were as these days it’s like can we fix (insert x hero/ability/map) and the devs go ok, and sends a fix in a weeks/months time frame. Depending on the change.

yeah but it took them forever to fix, not to mention they did it right, they did exactly what League of Legends does, they just let characters be OP, then nerf them and let other characters be OP for a while, and rotate it

[Slid-11446]

Just not true. Not for me.

I have 60-70% winrate in my rank placements in diamond in season 9 and 10. A rank I got boosted to in s4 or 5 rank bug.

Every game, even the ones I win, i have less damage and elims than the other tank, all dps, and even supports that play Zen or bap.

I usually exist in a corner taking space somewhere on rein or hog and stay alive as best as I can. Even when I win my team flames me both throughout the game and at the victory screen. Definitely punching up in that rank lol.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@AngryPuckmen-1981

Barf.

6 dps in a game, and in a 6v6 format.

God that doesn’t fix anything. that’s just what I mentioned above.

That and well if this the main format, tanks and supports are going to be nerfed “haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard” We basically have super charged versions of every tank now, with better defensive tools in a lot of cases. meaning dive and double barrier comp are back with a vengences (ram/sigma or mega rien) While supports are made to be able to defend themselves, and now have their “peel” tank back. So your going to have hard time dealing with any back their.

Tanks/supports can’t be filled in by dps, your just going to get none functional games where one side has a hyper dive comp, and the other is like 5 dps and a mercy thats also a dps and has no idea what their doing.

Well yeah, that’s an additional tradeoff.

But the trick is that a lot of people try to act like the other options that aren’t “Role Queue 5v5 with Popular Tanks” don’t have downsides.

• Role Queue 6v6 = Massive Queue Times or bad Matchmaking
• Role Queue 5v5 with Unpopular Tanks = Larger Queue Times or bad Matchmaking, Tank Diff badly
• Role Queue 5v5 with Popular Tanks = Good Matchmaking, Good Queue Times, Tank Diff but a well matchmakered one

---

• Open Queue 5v5 = GOATs, but good Queue Times and Matchmaking, Potentially All DPS on a team
• Open Queue 6v6 = GOATs, but good Queue Times and Matchmaking, Potentially All DPS on a team
• Open Queue with Role Limits = No GOATs, but good Queue Times and Matchmaking, Potentially All DPS on a team

[AngryPuckmen-1981]

@YourGuardian-21643

wrong, not really

“heheh, I was forged by the horrors of that vile place, no man or monster should have ever had to experience. aaaaaaaaaaaah aha ahahaha” ~ some dark souls character.

But ya no people really didn’t have a solid vision of what OW was back in those days, so was a lot of constant and wild takes that rubbed people in all sorts of ways. Creating like several hundred pages topics on just on one post. With people making dozens of different posts on just one topic all filling in to rather extreme degrees. it got so bad with the mercy stuff the Devs had to funel everyone into a single post, and delete the new ones that were cropping up.

@YourGuardian-21643

yeah but it took them forever to fix, not to mention they did it right, they did exactly what League of Legends does, they just let characters be OP, then nerf them and let other characters be OP for a while, and rotate it

eh… not exaclty. Most of OW1’s issues were more so heroes layered into each other, then individually being an issue. And we even had examples like orisa who was dirt tier for a year or two, then suddenly the meta once she had a proper partner in sigma to play with.

While a most DPS didn’t really stir the pot outside like sombra being a genji replacement in dive, or ashe having a really strong break point with a mercy pocket of a half minute their.

[YourGuardian-21643]

@AngryPuckmen-1981

eh… not exaclty. Most of OW1’s issues were more so heroes layered into each other, then individually being an issue. And we even had examples like orisa who was dirt tier for a year or two, then suddenly the meta once she had a proper partner in sigma to play with.

you still had exceptions, like players who just understood how to play Orisa before Sigma even existed

@AngryPuckmen-1981

While a most DPS didn’t really stir the pot outside like sombra being a genji replacement in dive, or ashe having a really strong break point with a mercy pocket of a half minute their.

it was just Genji op or Tracer op for DPS mains

[AngryPuckmen-1981]

@GreyFalcon-11737

But the trick is that a lot of people try to act like the other options that aren’t “Role Queue 5v5 with Popular Tanks” don’t have downsides.

So right now I’m not seeing que issues in around that diamond range. if that’s healthy then their isn’t a lot any format change is going to do if the issues exist in say… High M +.

That’s just smaller and smaller amount of players the higher you go.

Secondly we are in a stable balance cycle, where like any given issue with a hero is solved with a patch or two. Usually with small mechanical changes like keeping mercy damage boost from increasing Sojorns charge rate, or just some number changes.

going back into two tanks, by anymeans will just return the issue of having to balance tanks around how they stack with each other. Which was leading meta issue of 6v6. And would consistently narrow the amount of viable heroes into like 10 or less picks in many cases.

Like complain about sojourn or tracer all you want, their gate keeping people from climbing on hero they please at the moment.

Were as dive was dive, and you had play dive to just be vaible against it. or get really darn lucky with landing nearly every shatter and grav you can through at them, and not get blocked, dodged, or eaten as they wound up.

@YourGuardian-21643

you still had exceptions, like players who just understood how to play Orisa before Sigma even existed

eh not really their was an orisa hog pile but that didn’t last long as like hog was mostly holding her up after a decent buff to his gun/hook combo that got tweaked back down.

Orisa just would get ignored, and didn’t have a winconsidition. Her ult was easily destroyed, and her pull only really worked if their was an pit to fall into, or you had multiple ults like pulse bomb to pull people together into.

Outside of that anyone that knew how a flanked worked and how to shoot at something that wasn’t the orisa. Would just break apart her team behind her.

@YourGuardian-21643

it was just Genji op or Tracer op for DPS mains

I’m talking about new dps that were release, and little effect they had on the meta. Even echo kind of just ignored and became one of the least played dps.

[GreyFalcon-11737]

@AngryPuckmen-1981

So right now I’m not seeing que issues

So, go get more Tank players.

https://reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1djplfa/the_devs_can_fix_tanks_issues_including/

[AngryPuckmen-1981]

AS neatly formatted as that is, a lot of it won’t actually fix the issues it is intending to address. Mostly just uber buffing a lot things without consideration for the individual tank interactions that give them benefits against each other. Those the reason why you would swap in the first place.

And getting wierd issues with the format rules changing depending on the rank with the ult charge bit.

And it doesn’t solve the issue as much as changes the meta to favor the team that dumps an ult first chance they had, then swap the moment they no longer have it. Leaving the other team having to then choose to lose all the ult to counter swap or play the uphill battle.

[astralempire-2181]

I’d argue it’s more about which DPS can kill the enemy tank faster.