IF all her turrets are off cooldown, IF Brigs is not surrounded by one of their team mates.
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10m Turret. Only need one to create an opportunity to burn her. She is getting slowed the entire timeā¦
So its a 1v2 now? Right. Lets create scenarioās that hugely favor your argument because of being outnumbered.
The turrets work really well against grouped enemies. Especially if your team knows to exploit the distraction and slow they provide.
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I have 250 hours with Symmetra/ 119 of those were Sym 2.0.
The good things that have come from this and Iām sure most Symmetra mains agree are the projectile turrets and her orbs.
However, the orbs no longer pierce which along with her autolock was a unique thing she had among supports until Moira came along with her orbs that also pass through shields.
The tick rate is one of Symās biggest problems at the moment because it means she can only do pitiful damage against armour when she was sold as a tank/barrier buster.
The bad things, well, personally I miss the autolock. I think they threw the baby out with the bath water in this instance. The could have changed it more to an animation centred lock to keep the look of the old beam but slightly more skill. It would also help charge up her beam. Most people agree it should not take as long, many threads citing 1.5 seconds between stages would be good.
So the bad. Well, the loss of the shield Gen ULT and old Photon Barrier really hurt her. She had no survivability other than her 100 Shield which needs 3 seconds without damage to regen.
The old TP had to go. Especially if they got rid of Mass Rez. Because thatās what it was. Mass Rez with an 8 second delay.
Overall, my tweaks would be:
ā¢TP is infinite until destroyed so it is a realiable means of escape because it takes far too long to deploy or allies and Sym get 25 extra shields from using TP. This would also encourage allies to actually use the TP in QP. Probably best if this was a once itās gone itās gone situation given or prevalent the TP is.
ā¢ 25 extra health/25 extra shields.
ā¢ base damage of primary increased to 90. Tick rate halved from 20 to 10.
ā¢turrret cooldown lowered by 2 seconds.
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The orbs piercing was only niche useful against pirate ship comps. Even then the dps was so low that it was essentially feeding. Any other comp and those orbs were based entirely on if the enemy failed to notice the slow moving projectile or not.
Having them pierce still with the new movement speed and charge rate would be broken as all get out so it had to go.
At the lower end of her damage she is terrible against anything outside of barriers with her left click. That is why you use barriers and tanks to build it to its full potential. At full potential its tick rate is a none issue.
Note that before this highlight started I had already charged the beam off the enemy rein, killed him, and then killed doomfist who was then rezād at the start of this vid. Her full charge beam is deadly and can be fully charged fairly easily provided you have slower moving tanks and/or barrierās to place it on.
The aiming requirements for the new beam are fine as far its hitbox are concerned. Upping the damage but leaving her auto lock or even a semblance of said lock would make her broken as a DPS oriented hero. The reason it was okay before was due to how low the damage potential was at the time. The reason Moira is okay is due to the low damage it does.
It only takes four seconds in total to charge it. I think the overall charge requirement is fine. However, the way it increments could be changed to allow for more benefit to those with less aim.
Here is something I proposed in another thread.
Let me know what you think of this idea.
Her shield gen and old photon barrier have no place in her kit now. Reason being her survival rate is higher by way of extended range. Her primary no longer requires her to engage at armpit range which means she is out of range of most of the CQC cast. Old Sym had to fight EVERYONE at their range. New sym does not.
Old Photon barrier only helped in single ranged instances or in situations where burst ults from particular stationary directions. CQC held little to no value. The only time in CQC it may have helped is when enemies foolishly backpedaled instead of walking through it.
I say her survival is much greater now then it was before due to these factors alone.
I would rather they fix the deployment bugs that both TP and Shadowstep have. Making it easier to place would go a long way to making it better as a reactive ability. Decreasing the deployment time as well would be better.
I think an infinite teleporter (destructible or otherwise) would be to powerful and encourage a less proactive playstyle from Sym. Something that previous Sym suffered from a lot and part of the reason she was so terrible before.
I believe a health boost is not needed as she has the ability to play close to her team in a much more meaningful way then before. Allowing for her to use cover more effectively to regen shields as is.
Base damage wonāt change much as it only means a slightly higher TTK. Check the suggestion I already pasted. i think you may like it more.
Unlike many I feel that her cooldownās for her turrets are appropriate. Poor placement is punished while smart placement is not. If your turrets are well utilized you will often have all three back off cooldown before you need them. If you place them in small clusters or at bad angles you are punished for poor play.
Reducing this punishment would encourage a somewhat higher level of spam and less care in her use of turrets.
It only takes four seconds in total to charge it
Four seconds is a very long time for her to have to commit. Is there any other DPS that needs to wait 4 seconds to actually start dealing damage?
Tick rate and Ramp time aside (which both need improvements), Iād question why the āramp-upā mechanic is still in place for her primary fire. Ramp-up was only in place prior in 2.0 to balance out the lock-on feature of her weapon. With no lock-on, what need is there for ramp-up?
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This is just something I have noticed with sym and no other hero who has had as many reworks as her.
I honestly feel like the devs have no idea what they want out of her. Mercy for example in all her reworks they kept her kit the same and more or less moved abilities to different parts of her kit and tweaked numbers.
Sombra kept her same kit just timers were changed and her translocator got a few changes.
Sym on the other hand has abrupt changes to her kit where the abilities are completely changed or removed. They have changed her entire play style multiple times and it had still been weak. I am convinced it is blizz being to arrogant to say hey we screwed up and donāt know what we want with sym.
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If this is how you play Symmetra, then itās no wonder why you think sheās bad.
Not really, is just that right now she struggles to stay alive and her ult is such a waste of potential.
No more personal sheild still 200 hp,no lock on beam means she might die more often. But damn if you hit them orbs or have good tracking, you will melt people.
How? Her orbs? Brigette could easily step to the side. Iāve honestly done better in 1v1s against Brigette.
Is there another dps that provides the level of offensive and defensive utility she does?
Because that is what you need to consider when talking about buffing her primary. Buff to much and suddenly she is a better DPS pick the most of the roster when you factor in her team utility. Her DPS requirements need to be a little harsher in order to offset the huge amount of dexterity and moderate CC she offers.
Not to mention the fact that part of her damage is applied from a separate source that only Torbjorn can match her in. Meaning her damage is spread wider instead of focused on one ability.
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10+ seconds.
So you fight against idiot Brigs, then? As soon as they close the gap Symm is done, unless Symm is somehow already fully ramped, and even then itās a toss up.
Speak for yourself I love sym 3.0.
I usually get gold elims or damage when playing with her. Anyone who says she doesnāt do enough damage is lying or clearly bad at playing new sym. The only thing I would change is to make her kit less clunky and buggy and adjust her primary fire. Thatās it.
2.0 was bad and will be even worse in overwatcheās current state. She was literally the worst hero in the game. Not all sym mains dislike the rework so quit trying to push that false agenda.
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Play sym in comp seasons 1-10 and try not to get banned honey.
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You know that Soldier 76 does roughly 170 DPS with no āramp-upā time, and that is without factoring in critical hitsā¦
She does 90 DPS at full charge against armor, and must rely on a barriers or tanks to charge her primary. Itās simply not in an acceptable place for a damage dealer right now. Thatās why a majority of the community would like to see her ramp-time decreased.
You seem almost against buffing the character, and despite what you may believe, she needs some improvement. She has been in the bottom tier of heroes for a very long time, and this rework did very little to help that as of right now.
The other issue is her perception by the community, which also largely remains unchanged. Symmetra needs to be given some form of buffs to increase her viability and further change her community perception.
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Needs to start at 90, and work its way up to 180 over a 2 second period. I think I stated as much in the previous thread as well.
Her survival is still in question, no doubt in my mind. Previously, she could rely on armor from Torb and Shield Gen for herself to bolster her HP pool. In the days previous to the inclusion of Brigitte, Doomfist and the Hanzo rework, Iād have said sheād be fine where sheās at now.
That just isnāt the case any longer. She canāt bolster her HP in any fashion, and she has no way to get out of harms way once sheās pounced. Every other character in the roster has some sort of mitigation for getting out of harms way, why not Symmetra? I say, fix an existing portion of her toolkit to allow for it to work as her get out of jail free card.
Make her Teleporter half cast time, and have it so that as soon as itās placed, she pops through on the other side with no delay. Then her ability to create distance is now available, and a little less predictable for the likes of Brig and DF.
I would like to see it re-worked so that it works like Doomfists top down perspective, with the tweak being that it will only go to the range that the ability is capable of being placed. For Symmetra, 25 meters, and for Reaper, 35 meters.
I think this should be an option that can be toggled in the menu options for the character, the default would be placement as we have it now, the toggle for the top down placement. This would alleviate the issues we currently have with railing, inclines, etc.
3 seconds is a lifetime in combat, you know this as well as I do. Citing any utilization of regeneration for her sustainability is only feasible in an extreme range scenario. When attempting to utilize the primary weapon, she does not currently have the HP pool to sustain herself for using the primary the way it was intended. I know you play in groups, so your Symmetra is typically pocketed, most QP Symmetras, like myself, do not have this luxury to rely on.
These replies, quotes, etc arenāt intended to offend. Please donāt take it that way, Iām merely trying to convey what I believe her shortcomings are, and real world use case scenarios where a pocket healer is not present.
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Didnāt her pick rate drop once the rework went live? At least, thatās what Iāve been hearing on the forums. Also, I never played Symmetra to show off my high skill lol. Iāll admit I player because of the lock on beam, high skill and aim intensive heroes arenāt fun to me unless you count Mei. She just needed a few tweaks to be viable in some situations. I miss the good old days of Sym 2.0.
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āShe requires skill, so she is okā? She is a huge failure and the only ones who say she is āokā are the people who donāt even play her
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A faster TP transformation time would be an ok buff to her.
Eh idk about that.
And saying it was a ātremendous failureā is a bit of an overexageration.
First of all, she aināt super hard. The only thing that has been made harder to use has been her primary fire. Thatās it. Her turrets have been made easier to set up and much more fluid. Her new TP, though a new ability, is not hard to use in itself, it is just hard to coordinate with the team to use it. But that is not an attribute of the ability itself, but the lack of good team coordination. (And yes its clunky and buggy, but it is a step in the right direction)
I find her to be much easier to use now because I donāt have to take forever to setup an area, and her alternate fire is a very good source of damage, but hey to all itās own.
Anyways what Iām trying to say is that new sym is not a ātremendous failureā. Itās not the best she could be, she still needs tune ups, but it is much better than what she used to be.
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