Sym 2.0 vs 3.0 Beam Damage - This is a Nerf!

We are fighting a losing battle though

There are a lot of people who don’t play sym who aren’t just brushing her off saying she’s fine

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Symms biggest problem is her tickrate on her primary fire. I was toying around with the calculator and cutting the tick rate in half (10 ticks) would help the weapon out so much. At level 3 charge each tick would do 18 damage but when counting in armor it would do 13 damage making it 130dps. That’s way better than the current 90dps for armor we have now. If they want symm to be a tank buster (even though we have enough of those) then they need to make her primary fire actualluly good at that job. The range increase on PTR is a good start and hopefully it means that the beam is on their radar. The turret cooldown is still 10 seconds per turret. Meaning if you use all 3 at once you have to wait 30 seconds to get another 3. Turret cooldown should be 8 seconds making 3 turrets be 24 seconds. Also can we get our old HUD indicator back for when a turret dies. Its so hard to tell when one goes down now. Her teleporter is also super wonky to place especially with fence posts. Cast time is still too long to reliably escape a grav. Also the area to activate the teleporter is super small which means if you are moving around in a grav you might not be able to teleport. Her ult is meh. I’d rather see these other changes that I mentioned happen first before changing the ult. Same applies to symms health. She needs help…still.


But what if her purpose isn’t actually to be a tank buster? What if she’s just meant to erase 200HP heroes?

If that’s her purpose she certainly isn’t the best at it right now. But I’m thinking, what if her maximum damage was enough to delete a hero? 200 DPS? It would certainly be crazy, but it’s a consideration we can make :slight_smile:

You are factoring in accuracy. In that case, yes, her left click is weaker than Sym 2.0. Which is a GOOD THING considering the massive buffs the turrets received. Even though they’re double power for half the turrets, they regenerate at the same rate, so that means you are generating double the turret power. That plus the fact that they can be thrown.

The secondary fire and ultimate reworks are not massive buffs but they are slightly more useful.

And the tactical potential of the new Teleporter is huge. Especially in organized teams, yes, but many times I have been able to harass a Widowmaker as a Symmetra and get her off her position.

The left click nerf balances out her upgrades elsewhere. Consider that Symmetra is one of my top 5 heroes.

Remember how all this started because people complained that the auto-lock was unfair.

My only real grudge with the new left click is that indeed it more a tank buster and less a squishy buster, but the new turrets do a magnificent job at killing squishies now that they’re so easy to deploy and each turrent has more slow effect.

I say tweak the beam so that it has a softlock like Moira does, and we’re good.

Barring that, teleporter deployment time needs to be tweaked as well. It’s not a get out of jail free card like the Photon Shield it replaced was.

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Ah, you are one of ‘those’ types? Can’t deny the mistakes so try to attack the person? Sadly you chose the wrong track to take.

Newsflash: Blizzard Overwatch team released several press articles in the days during the rework and preceeding it.

April 29th, 2018 on VGR: “It still has the potential to gain extra damage by dealing damage like it does now, but instead of going 30/60/120 dps it is currently 65/130/195 dps,” Goodman said. “This means the weapon has significantly more potential, but it is more difficult to get it to max power.”

That would be a press release by Geoff Goodman. Minor tweak downs for the final numbers but key words “significantly more potential”.

Ok but what if they lied about what he said?

Symmetra Rework

July 5th post on the PTR forums. Read it for yourself. Don’t take my word for it. But I will quote from the primary fire mechanic info…

The biggest change to Symmetra’s primary fire is that it no longer locks onto enemies. This change, in turn, allows the weapon to deal significantly more damage

Significantly more NOT as you say “lower dmg output … the goal”. Your ad hominem attack has been cut down with proof that it was indeed a mistake. Want to try something else instead?

Actually, except for your less than polite tone, i did apparently choose the right track to take.

See the part that you … out of my reply is the question i ask, and this post you give is the answer to that question i ask.

i did basically ask, in a cheeky way, how do you know it is a mistake, have you just assumed that?

To which you helpfully provide the answer that in fact this is given by devs info that the current dmg model for that gun is not exactly how they want it to be.

I did not have that data that you in fact had, and the response i was replying to did not give that info. Which is why i had to ask how it was you spoke as if you knew it was incorrect?

I am not someone that denies when mistakes are made. I am someone that does not assume. So when statements are made without providing the basis for them, I am compelled to ask on what basis are such statements being made or are they just assumptions?

I get attacked on these forums and on the reddit all the time for having posts that are too long. If I stopped and added backstory for every single reason I am saying something my posts would often be twice as long as they already are.

It is the duty of a reader to investigate any claims by myself or any other person before taking a stance one way or another. The data on what the developers want in reworks and tweaks is out there if you only do the research first.

As for my tone, you are the one who made the assumption that I was making assumptions. You are the one who said and I quote,

Your post was read by me as an ad hominem attack and still in fact is being read as such. Your latest post barely seems to apologize for the attacks but even still is trying to shift the blame onto me by claiming my tone is bad or rather “less than polite”.

Even more, it really annoys me that you try to claim that “I am someone that does not assume.” when your own post plainly assumed that I was “failing at critical thinking” for “assuming lower dmg output from the beam was a mistake and not the goal”

If you can not tell, yes, I am a bit offended here. I never base my statements however off of personal emotion. I will defend my worst enemy’s words if they are in the right, and I will shout down my best friend when they are in the wrong. To me, truth and logic is everything. Which again is why I am slightly offended by your attack and your second response trying to sidestep the fact you attacked me and placing the blame for it upon my own statements.

I don’t understand why there is any kind of confrontational post being made from the get go.

Are we all not here to help get Symmetra tuned properly?

I mean, if you’re not here to help the cause, then you’re in the wrong thread.


Honestly I don’t know what blizz was thinking

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The worst part of it is, you can’t even change your primary fire and secondary fire without fecking up how your stuff deploys as well - I tried it and then I couldn’t deploy my TP the right away (it reverses the buttons so it’s all backwards)

I mean, that and the fact that they messed her up in the first place and she’s garbage now.

I am going to say something that I know is going to be controversial and kind of goes against what I was just debating with DeuceDangle about.

Everything I have posted in this thread and others about the rework has been about hard facts not conjecture or belief. But I am about to say something that for once I have no proof beyond instinct / gut feeling at it being truth. So please take what I am about to say with a grain of salt and decide for yourself if I am right.

It is my belief that what Blizzard was thinking was that the Sym 3.0 damage as it was when it first went on the PTR (due to the existence of the bug) was balanced where they wanted it. Therefor the numbers they used was balanced off of that bug rather than the beam as we have it on live.

I am not saying ‘Blizzard knew it could be exploited’. What I am saying is that the bug was such that everyone who tested it in the Blizzard house / farm was accidentally taking advantage of the bug and her beam was balanced around that. And when they fixed the exploit no one at Blizzard realized the dramatic impact it had on the overall balance of the beam.

Now, having said all of that, the preceeding paragraph is for once purely conjecture and unlike everything else you will ever see me stating I have no proof. So take it as you will…

That assumes that the playtesters all have craptastic aim, for them not to have seen this. Then again, in house playtesters aren’t looking for exploits really, so the exploit was discovered once it was pushed to the PTR. For what it’s worth though, I think your gut on this one is right, and now that it has been modified to prevent the bug from happening, the numbers can’t be adjusted without making the weapon overpowered.

They would have to completely re-design the back end code in order to make this work properly. I know I’ve said it before, but there needs to be some kind of logic involved with her weapon other than hit or miss, it needs to be something like this:

Has weapon his this character in last .25 seconds?
If Yes: Wait until next tick
If No: Apply tick

This would keep it from being able to be exploited. This would probably cause the server to lag as it’s doing the calculation for each character you swipe over.

Also, with the above logic, it would be easy to get the beam up to full charge, and then just spin around randomly hoping to get a ‘tick’ on a player.

This is where the aim comes in, and a very slight delay before applying damage. I hate the idea behind waiting to apply damage, but if the reward is solid ticks of damage rather than 20 increments of base damage level calculated against armor, I’d be willing to take the delay.

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your right your dps would drop drastically without auto lock because you can no longer do %100 accuracy

it’s almost like it was something demanded by people sick of others saying they are “great at the game” who only ever used auto lock and not even her alt fire

it’s like some sort of decrease in effectiveness at something doing way to well at its job

what was the word for it, it’s on the tip of my tongue :thinking:

Dang man, go back under your bridge :wink:

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Your complaining about a nerf doing its job, yes it does do a lot more damage than previously but it also removes auto aim so if you seriously can’t look at someone fpr four seconds thats on you and you alone.

Actually, it’s funny you mention that, because previous to Symmetra’s 3.0 changes, that’s all you had to do… Hold down left click and look at them.

Now it requires pinpoint accuracy held for an two seconds before you can see 60dps, and then another entire 2 seconds additional to get 120dps, and then an additional 2 seconds to finally reach max potential of the weapon.

What other character in OW has to hold their reticle for 4 seconds on a target to obtain maximum DPS? Yeah, none of them. Why is the requirement so hard for Symmetra? Why not just give her 120dps static on her beam, no ramp up needed?

Or, why not make it 130/195 2 stage? Since it requires aim now, it wouldn’t be imbalanced, right? Because lRn2AiM is what gets you the damage cookie, right?

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no, they just had to be on your screen, you now need the crosshair ON THEM

yeah exactly like zarya’s except you get bonus damage just from damaging them and not on hoping your bubble gets hit.

A gimmick they want to hold onto for sym the closest is again zarya, because like you

again your complaining about a NERF being a NERF to those who abused the auto lock, if you actually bother to keep your crosshair on them its a buff.

No, the math has been proven again and again, it is NOT a buff. Do the math, 20 ticks vs 4 ticks. Armor damage negation. Average Accuracy vs no need to anything other than keep your enemy on screen. Where as before, you had 100% accuracy to do a maximum of 120dps with the weapon, you now have to maintain accuracy for 4 seconds in order to get the previous damage. Now, factor in that no one, and I do mean no one (short of an aimbot) can maintain 100% lock, even with just body shots. So being generous with 50-60% aim, you’ve got 50-60% of the damage. 50% of 180 is 90. Reduce that by armor, and it’s 45.

45 Damage per second for maintaining 50% accuracy on your target, with no chance to crit, and 4 seconds of hanging your butt out on the line to utilize the weapon. You don’t consider that a bit… I don’t know, obscene?

That is not a buff.


I’m pretty sure that the buff in the PTR will put her in a much more consistent spot. It’ll be nearly twice the range of 2.0…