Swap E-Rez with Valkyrie | Make Rez an Ultimate Again

[Cleopatra-21937]

@Megadodo-11847

With apologies - I cant speak to that, as I do not know what “dps ways” means

DPS ways are ensuring, that already certain victory comes faster, via damage boosting and using pistol.

[Megadodo-11847]

@Cleopatra-21937

DPS ways are ensuring, that already certain victory comes faster, via damage boosting and using pistol.

given this definition, yes, this is in my opinion one of the multiple ways where it is strong

[Dva-21640]

@Lias-11313

If the ability is instant, you have 5 charges, you mash the Q button 5 times and get 5 people up within a second

Just because I like being pedantic;

If we assume we have the old animation (something like 0.8 seconds) and old invulnerability (2.25 seconds) it would work out as the following;

Mercy will be “casting” for a total of 4 seconds (baring in mind this can’t be animation cancelled)

Her teammates will return to the fight in instances of 2.25 seconds. With 0.8 seconds between each revive, the first ally will be ready to fight 1.45 seconds before the next. Multiply this by 5, since we’re assuming Mercy is somehow individually reviving 5 people and the enemy team isn’t doing anything in this time, it will take a minimum of 7.75 seconds for Mercy’s full team to be able to fight again by the time she’s revived everyone.

That’s a far cry away from the 2.25 seconds of the old revive, which offered no counterplay. With this suggestion, the enemy team has up to 4 seconds in total where Mercy will be raising her hand alone to kill her.

[Zergotto-2668]

@RevertMercy-1304

You are making the assumptions that they couldn’t have simply given Mass res tweaks to allow for counterplay. The trade off of Mass res was Mercy having 50hp, and no decent self-defence capabilities. That trade-off was in fact, so effective, that the devs felt that they needed to buff Mercy with invincibility on her res, just to make her viable.

you don’t know. Maybe they tried internally and found out it didn’t work, then tried something else.
When reworking scatter they talked stuff they tried and was cut, so we know they try other things before setting on a rework.

Also… no point in arguing about an ability that the devs have stated multiple times that is not coming back.

[Txboyd1-1557]

@RevertMercy-1304

You are making the assumptions that they couldn’t have simply given Mass res tweaks to allow for counterplay

No i’m saying that if we deal purely in hypotheticals and opinoins there is no discussion it’s simply a game off “you don’t know what they could have done to make it balanced” and neither do you so we’re basically stuck with no room for diccustion so I’m going off the gameplay of what we had which guess what I disliked

@RevertMercy-1304

Let’s think outside the box on how Mass res could have been fixed, eh? There were many ways to balance it. They simply chose not to do so, and caved in to the pros / streamers whining about how “unfun it was to play against.”

why what could you possibly stance could if they did this it would be balanced and again you have also no way of knowing this for sure thats why hypothetical arguments are some of the most baseless

along with that why are you’re trying to
fix a problem the game is not suffering from thus adding another hypothetical of “what if Mass rez came back” so this whole discussion is based off your veiws alone which really doesn’t make much of a active discussion if active at all but what to do

[RevertMercy-1304]

@Zergotto-2668

you don’t know. Maybe they tried internally and found out it didn’t work, then tried something else.
When reworking scatter they talked stuff they tried and was cut, so we know they try other things before setting on a rework.

Also… no point in arguing about an ability that the devs have stated multiple times that is not coming back.

And you don’t know either, maybe they never tried it before and once they do, will realize how this was the solution all along. It’s all speculation as to what we think they did or didn’t do.

Also… The devs have gone back on their word multiple times, and thus, I will continue to believe that it is coming back.

---

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls

[Quest-11845]

@Cleopatra-21937

And Valkyrie is really bad at saving team from both, unfortunately.

So is Nanoboost. So is Coalesence.

Also, the hide and rez that was employed by some Mercy mains is not comparable to the hide and ult of DPS heroes. DPS ults do not benefit from team mates being dead.

Infact, imho, its terribly inaccurate to try to compare mass rez, an ult that only affected dead team mates, to literally any other other ult in the game as all others only affect living players.

[Zergotto-2668]

are you… are you always this arrogant?

@RevertMercy-1304

once they do, will realize how this was the solution all along

[Doohickey-11155]

You mean you don’t try to win the fight with Pulse Bomb 1v6?

[Cleopatra-21937]

@Quest-11845

So is Nanoboost. So is Coalesence.

Also, the hide and rez that was employed by some Mercy mains is not comparable to the hide and ult of DPS heroes. DPS ults do not benefit from team mates being dead.

Infact, imho, its terribly inaccurate to try to compare mass rez, an ult that only affected dead team mates, to literally any other other ult in the game as all others only affect living players.

Nanoboost, combined with Ana healing, and Coalescence provide much better protection from damage, tanking most non-ultimate damage.

DPS ults don’t benefit from teammates being alive either, it’s just more convenient to use one in ambush.

Mass rez could affect alive teammates, if it was added. But it wasn’t seen as problem. Could be simple ~2 s of damage immunity + full restore of health, for example.

[Txboyd1-1557]

@RevertMercy-1304

It’s all speculation as to what we think they did or didn’t do.

again how do you expect to have a actually meaningful discussion when you have to speculate that mass rez is coming back to have said discussion these threads are only meant for people who think like you and really it’s just a poor way to trade a conversation

[LîneÔfSîght-2707]

@RevertMercy-1304

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls

LUL

Blizzard has a much bigger problem that losing them players, her name is Brigitte!

[Zergotto-2668]

well, they assume their opinion is the only true, fair and fun one.
How can you expect a fair discussion with a guy who thinks they’re right on arrival? I mean, they even think their word has the same value as the dev’s!

[Quest-11845]

@Cleopatra-21937

Nanoboost, combined with Ana healing, and Coalescence provide much better protection from damage, tanking most non-ultimate damage.

We were talking about RIP tire and Dva bomb. Not non-ultimate damage.

@Cleopatra-21937

DPS ults don’t benefit from teammates being alive either, it’s just more convenient to use one in ambush.

Yes but if you hide as Reaper then after 5 team mates died pop out and go “die die die” you’re basically throwing.

[awquar-1819]

“How many times are we going to have to teach you this lesson old man?”

Seriously mass Rez was unhealthy.

[RevertMercy-1304]

@Zergotto-2668

are you… are you always this arrogant?

And with your resorting to Ad hominem and insults, I am left to believe you have nothing else to add or rebuttal to our little discussion. Thanks for the talk, and I wish you well in your endeavors!

@Txboyd1-1557

No i’m saying that if we deal purely in hypotheticals and opinoins there is no discussion it’s simply a game off “you don’t know what they could have done to make it balanced” and neither do you so we’re basically stuck with no room for diccustion so I’m going off the gameplay of what we had which guess what I disliked

That’s your opinion, and you are fine to feel that way. I think that there is always room for the possibility of testing something out and seeing if it would work. Neither you nor I knows what they actually tried with Mass res, so both views on the topic are subjective, hypothetical, and valid ones. You may see ideas and suggestions for fixing Mass res as “having no room for discussion”, but I disagree. There have been thousands upon thousands of posts worth of discussion regarding the ability and solutions to it’s problems, and the Mercy megathreads in part prove it. We’re going to have to agree to disagree on that!

@Txboyd1-1557

why what could you possibly stance could if they did this it would be balanced and again you have also no way of knowing this for sure thats why hypothetical arguments are some of the most baseless

along with that why are you’re trying to
fix a problem the game is not suffering from thus adding another hypothetical of “what if Mass rez came back” so this whole discussion is based off your veiws alone which really doesn’t make much of a active discussion if active at all but what to do

I’m not sure if I understood the structure of this paragraph, but I am assuming that you are saying “how could you know if this will be balanced based on the hypothetical?” I would then ask you, “How do you know that saying a hero should be nerfed based on ‘unfun to play against’ arguments is the solution?” So far what we have seen are heroes being gutted and made unimpactful, unfun to play, and in other cases, completely different from their core roles (symmetra, bastion, etc.) If we are able to make balance changes based on those premises, I’m pretty sure we can also make balance changes based on previous iterations of a hero that was tested before, and add modern tweaks to allow for counterplay.

Afterall, both are subjective opinion, and thus, should both be tried. Not just one side of the community who feels that everything that they see as “unfun” be nerfed, simply because “muh rank” or “I’m famous, so do what I say.” No, I believe the injustice done to Mercy is clear. I believe it is time for more reverts, and will continue fighting until Mercy is engaging, impactful, and rewarding to play, not just to play against. But hey! That’s just my take on it.

---

~Sincerely Yours xoxo,
a Lover of True, Fair, and Fun Balance.
xavvypls

[Cleopatra-21937]

@Quest-11845

Yes but if you hide as Reaper then after 5 team mates died pop out and go “die die die” you’re basically throwing.

As long as you capture objective, you still can win game. Dying as Mercy with charged resurrect is, indeed, throwing.
Not saying that it’s a nice move to do that as Reaper, if you could save teammates by ulting earlier.

[anon63781830]

Maybe because devs intend Valkyrie to be offensive ult rather than defensive?

[Cleopatra-21937]

Then they clearly didn’t know their own game. Supports in general are needed, when team screws up badly.

When damage is high, and tanks are being shredded, you need someone with strong healing to keep you alive through all that chaos. You can kill with no support ults, and still get kills; but if you don’t have support ult while under heavy fire, you most likely will die.

Offensive support ult can work, if your team already is doing good, or if you have that one player capable of erasing whole enemy team on their own. But even Nanoboost, which is offensive ultimate, has defensive use in form of damage resistance/burst health on use.

[Txboyd1-1557]

@RevertMercy-1304

That’s your opinion

first of all I have to point this out as we’re cleary just dealing in these aparently

@RevertMercy-1304

That’s your opinion, and you are fine to feel that way. I think that there is always room for the possibility of testing something out and seeing if it would work.

possiblity Yes but what is the point of costant speculation over something that is for not for sure coming back again this thread doesn’t seem like it’s trying to change anybodys mind as there is very little valid evidence so it’s simply here to preach to your own like minded fourm users that think the same as you

@RevertMercy-1304

You may see ideas and suggestions for fixing Mass res as “having no room for discussion”, but I disagree.

yes those were alot more valid cause they were happening recently after the rework people were upset because mercy is very popular but it’s cleary no room for dicusstion by y’know fact if you limit you’re self to rez being a ult

@RevertMercy-1304

How do you know that saying a hero should be nerfed based on ‘unfun to play against’ arguments is the solution?”

you do need to realize that this isn’t the only reason it very much lack counterplay sight but yes they chose a different way to do and they very much are aware that they’re other way but which to choose is not up to you and honestly it’s you have quite a big basis against streamers understanabley so you think the are the sole reason mercy got reworked but that is simple not the case and you resent the soultion that they’ve presented you with and honestly is pretty much like I said “no room for discussiton”