Surefour's thoughts on healing in OW

[RiotingSoul-11272]

Then wouldn’t removing those healbot mechanics be favorable?

[AeLynn-11513]

@Socrates-11282

This in turn causes certain heroes to get picked way more than others and for those underperforming heroes to get buffed to compete with them.

Widow was Queen in Dive when the go-to healers were Lucio and Mercy or Lucio and Zen…

@Socrates-11282

If the game didn’t have so much sustain, there wouldn’t be need for all the burst damage in it.

And yet characters like Widow and Hanzo have been in the game since before any new healers were added and their potential was hardly different from today in regards to having consistent critical accuracy.

@Socrates-11282

This in turn causes certain heroes to get picked way more than others and for those underperforming heroes to get buffed to compete with them.

Solution:
Nerf Burst damage.
If healing is too strong, nerf healing.

Do not buff Burst.
Do not buff Sustain.
Do not buff DPS whatsoever unless they’re critically failing such as with Bastion or Reaper or maybe Symmetra.
(Sombra works just fine in higher ranks and can easily be a good assassin in lower ranks)

[Socrates-11282]

@AeLynn-11513

And yet characters like Widow and Hanzo have been in the game since before any new healers were added and their potential was hardly different from today in regards to having consistent critical accuracy.

Hanzo and Widow were broken at that time and weren’t must picks because sustain damage heroes were also viable.

Sustain creep has caused those same sustain heroes to become trash (look at current Soldier 76 pickrate) and this causes the devs to buff the other DPS to try and help them compete with the more burst oriented DPS.

[Decide-11427]

@Radman-1590

I played a ton of TF2. In pubs, in competitve, everywhere. You cant just compare widow to sniper like that.

In tf2, there was NO good ranged damage other than 1) sniper, 2) ambassador, 3) sticky launcher.

In overwatch, there are:

• two snipers,
• multiple long-medium range hitscan heroes
• multiple high velocity, low drop off projectile heroes
• multiple healers that can return damage from range
• barriers

Widow is forced to play like a rat, because she cant just hold down an area with her presence. At least, not as easily as TF2 sniper.

you can say that is more or less fun. But at the end of the day grapple hook makes sense for OW.

Why, exactly, can Widow and the Sniper not be compared? They have the same exact purpose: long range hitscan, one-hit-KO potential. No one else in the game has the same range, scope, and headshot multiplier that Widow does.

The comparison is not meant to be a 1:1 bullet for bullet breakdown, it’s describing the relationship between the sniper role vs everyone else in each game.

What is the common thread about barriers? “If we don’t have barriers then snipers will kill our whole team.” So then the game boils down to stuff like GOATS, bunker, double shield, double shield+Sym ult, double shield+Mei wall, etc. This is a huge problem that will not go away if Blizzard is unwilling to look at the kits of burst heroes like Widow. It’s not like we don’t have multiple years of this junk demonstrating that the balance is off.

[Dorian-11406]

This has been an issue for a while. This is why snipers have become so good, this is why dps have been getting buffs across the board, and why tanks have been getting worse. Genuinely, if they lower the overall input of healing, they can nerf damage effectively across the board, while making MORE DPS characters viable at the same time. AoE healing has killed the balance in this game, and the fact that they kept adding more makes me actually get a headache.

[BluFrestLeaf-1688]

Yes but what are the chances a Lùcio will only stay in heal song. Even bronze players switch to speed boost.

[BluFrestLeaf-1688]

None. But when combined with another support
Yes.
Moira has the highest HPS potential at 130.
Ana at release had 100 hp burst + 75 heal and 100% heal boost
250 health within a mere second

That was busted

[BluFrestLeaf-1688]

Thats such a bad argument.
You really think dying within one second, healing a allies health within one second is a hell of a game? Nah.

Again healing creep. And Damage creep.

[Radman-1590]

I just said why they cant be compared.

In tf2, it is pretty much useless to try to return damage to a sniper unless you are a sniper. You have to push the choke with uber (TF2’s version of barriers), then jump on the sniper. OR you bring your own sniper.

In OW, you can actively return damage with at least half of the characters. Unless the sniper is actively being healed, it is enough damage to make sure they cant get more than a couple shots off (inb4 but one shot is all she needs!).

So like it or not, widow needs to play like a rat. She needs to use her mobility to try and get that first shot to connect, or escape if she misses. By contrast, TF2 sniper can fire off for free until a soldier or scout has the space to dive him.

“If we don’t have barriers then snipers will kill our whole team.” So then the game boils down to stuff like GOATS, bunker, double shield, double shield+Sym ult, double shield+Mei wall, etc.

This is so funny, because ubercharge was a requirement in 99% of competitive TF2 games. Its also the only ability that somewhat resembles an OW barrier.

[Zwei-11485]

@CuddlyFlower-2892

When do people realize that burst is still going to be better than sustain, even if healing is reduced?

Depends on the numbers tbh. Think the main issue with the sustained VS burst damage heroes currently is that burst damage heroes can fire those potential oneshots off every second or so, or in McCree’s case he can remove you in under half a second.

[BluFrestLeaf-1688]

Definitely not. But she is part of the problem.
And they have to nerf every single post release support. And re adjust the first 3 healers

[BluFrestLeaf-1688]

And Burst was D.Vas job. Her DM deletes burst. And since she isnt that great any more Burst rules the game pretty much. Technically you could say its also Zarya’s job, and charge to kill the burst damage heroes

But with all this damage creep and healing creep the game just becomes a mess

[AeLynn-11513]

@Socrates-11282

Sustain creep has caused those same sustain heroes to become trash (look at current Soldier 76 pickrate)

@JoshuaNoh-1358

Looking at GM players for the current patch (1.43), Genji and Soldier: 76 are #6 and #7 in terms of win rate for damage heroes (out of 16 total).

They’re not doing quite as poorly as the general community sentiment would imply. Game balance perceptions/opinions are often repeated and perpetuated enough that they start to become accepted as fact by many players.

@JoshuaNoh-1358

I think in general being wary of extreme “power creep” is a valid and healthy concern if it’s causing gameplay to become too wildly distorted from the core experience. I don’t feel that we’re currently anywhere close to that with the live game.

Just gonna… throw this out here.
We’ve not had an update on “power creep” since.

[Jeongyeon-2423]

I never get that…
Why should sustained dmg be preferred after you nerf healing…
Burst is still better, why use sustained dps if you an one-shot your opponent

[Socrates-11282]

@AeLynn-11513

Just gonna… throw this out here.

1. The community went in an uproar when they said Soldier and Genji were fine
2. Look at Soldier’s pickrate

[Deleter-11889]

I haven’t been following this too much because I am okay with the state of OW…

But with the light info I have read and acknowledged, I like the way OW is now… high heals, high dmg…

Lowering things like dmg to more sustained/over time doesn’t make sense to me. Doesn’t that take away from the skill/reflex/high speed and fast paced pressure-fest that OW is? Isn’t that what makes it fun?

What would be fun about lowering/reverting/rolling back to something slower, more awkward and clunky?

[Deykar-2772]

More forgiving and consistent?

[AeLynn-11513]

@Socrates-11282

The community went in an uproar when they said Soldier and Genji were fine

Because the community is overwhelmingly bad.

@JoshuaNoh-1358

When making balance changes we typically look at the high end potential of player skill for a hero

My SRs as of S19*
Tank: 4051
DPS: 3.7k
Support: 3.6k

*Not played competitively in a while. Hate Double Shield.

The community can have as much of an uproar as they want. They’re predominately lower elo. 70% of the playerbase is sub-Diamond.
I’m above Diamond.

Does that mean you guys shouldn’t be listened to? Absolutely not, of course your feedback should be appreciated. But the game cannot be balanced for that or the higher ranks will be overburdened with balance issues.

[Saber-22958]

worse. Ana had 10 rounds in her clip with each bullet healing for 75hp every 0.6 seconds

That amounted to 125 health every second. Now double that just because Anas nade used to double the healing numbers. That is 250 health per second restored to a target for 5 full seconds which was the duration of the nade then. This is without including the 100 restored by nade itself and after 5 seconds it was still available.

Speaking through numbers, Ana could pocket targets so hard that even if you picked roadhog just stood still and didn’t use take a breather, she would outheal soldier 76 entire kit, with 100% accuracy on bodyshots and even with couple of crits tossed in there. this is zens ultimate level of healing, when have we ever even come close to so much healing since then?

And yet it wasn’t snipers who were meta. The most picked dps when we look at GM pickrates for that time were tracer, gengu and ofcourse soldier 76.

[Socrates-11282]

@AeLynn-11513

Because the community is overwhelmingly bad.

Sure, but the community consists of pro players and GM players as well who also got upset about this particular statement made by the devs.