It requires less skill to get good with Genji, than it takes to counter Genji. That is why it’s unbalanced.
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Yeah, but shields and walls do. A LOT. And bastion cant dash across the entire map when his targets simply move, nor does he have 3 mobility options to get into the middle of the enemy team to ult.
We talking regular ladder or pros? Cause in both of those Genji and Tracer were top tier picks for most of the game. Not to mention in pros Genji was played with Phara many times.
Idk if Genji ever dropped below top 5 dps picks, and that was during the sniper/doomfist/brig meta and here he is top 1 again.
He was always a top pick, Sombra ult spam being a thing for a while doesnt mean he wasnt in the top still.
Yeah, I mean Reaper, Tracer, Sombra, Phara can all ult from accross the map. Effectively it will have the same result as if Genji ulted on the other side of the map,except with 2 dashes he might even find a target.
And in the end the ‘‘he has to be in mele distance to use ult’’ doesnt mean anything when comparing him to other dps. he has 3 mobility abilities to get to his target, a long range dash reset on ult to get him where ever he wants to be, that resets everytime he kills something, mean while other dps that dont have anywhere near the mobility have to take into account everything that Genji does AND their own positioning options, map areas, shields and other dmg soaking abilities, unavoidable defensive CDs etc. A soldier ulting has the same counters a Genji ulting has except he can also be countered by Dva matrix, Dva soaking up dmg by blocking, Winston ult block soaking, Shields, people moving behind natural cover etc.
Why do you think Nano Blade became such a prominent thing? Why not nano visor, nano high noon, nano rocket barrage, nano death blossom?
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ryujehong, ml7, and jjonak say hi.
All the genji blades they’ve slept say hi too.
If you say this is a circumstantial or luck based scenario then you are wrong because its 100% skill based
Her longshot lets her space out midrange heroes she can’t deal with. It also lets her heal 100 health.
And how frequently does a Genji do that? Or even when he does, how often is it a good option? You’ve picked an incredibly specific example.
Not only can Lucio wallride at 6m/s but his crossfade gives him 30% passive extra speed. More so if he amps it up. I think if a Genji can close the gap you’re bad.
cough look at my profile before you tell me how my main is doing cough
If you can’t land it, you’re probably at an elo where the Genji can’t dragonblade properly
See above
I thought your argument was the synergy of two ults was powerful? I think a one ult trade off is a good trade off if it’s really such a problem. Also shoot it to his side. You don’t shoot directly at an enemy that can prevent grav unless you’ve played this game for 20 minutes in silver
So you mean you’ve effectively wasted his dragonblade? Even without the kill, that’s still an awesome trade.
See point about rocket punch
Ok so nano Genji with the 50% damage resist gives him an effective 400 health. What sort of teams are you running that can’t quickly deal 400 damage to a stunned target?
Ok, so let’s say 7 eliminations per game. In your typical competitive match, how many elimations average is a Genji getting OUTSIDE ult?
Hanzo’s ult is used for spacing. Tracer’s ult is used for quick and easy single picks with sometimes another kill thrown in for good measure. Junkrat doesn’t have to throw his literal body into the enemy team and can make it travel much farther.
No, be real. This is a player problem. I’ve NEVER found countering nanoblade a problem
If genji is balanced then everyone deserves an overloaded kit
Are you kidding me? That’s your answer? Boop him 3 ft away so 1 second later he still kills you?
Such counterplay. The only true counterplay to blade is Earthshatter or Graviton which are both prolonged stun ults.
An ult should not be the only counterplay to another ult. Thats ridiculous. There are simple counterplay to every single ult except Dragon blade.
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Are you aware that Genji’s base speed is increased during his ultimate? His already faster than most of the roster base speed, I mean.
Also, people are talking about booping the Genji, but a smart Genji will have dash on cooldown waiting for Lúcio to boop him.
While I don’t think Nano Blade is particularly a huge problem, specially before Masters, it is kind of a bummer that once he gets his hands on you, a squishy 200~250 HP hero, you’re dead even inside Transcendence.
Sound Barrier also doesn’t help that much even if perfectly timed, on the best case scenario it will just mean one less kill, or two if you’re lucky.
I guess it is somewhat fair, though, that most counterplays to Nano Blade are as mechanical as the ultimate is in itself - except for Swift Strike’s hitbox, which I’ll preach until my death is major Bullhoof.
I don’t think it’s fair that people treat the average Nano Blade as the best Nano Blades by Cavalry himself too. Most Blades and Nano Blades end up being flops.
they leave counterplay
utls u gotta look at are the solo teamwipes and hard carries like rally, riptire and self dest
the main difference between what your using is you put blade into a perfect senario while the nano-tank, vsior and blossom are all being used into things that coutner it lol
any ult is op if your playing it into areas where no one even trys to counter it. just like any ult can be useless
knowing when to use blade, tank bastion, visor ect is apart of the skill of those heroes
and yes they will all result in a team wipe assuming the person used the ults properly. genji’s is no different, its not like every genji just team wipes everyone
most of the genjis, we’ll say bronze-diamond fumble the ult time and time again. its just the lower you go the people react really slowly and the fumbles arnt as negatively effected.
want the two greatest tip for preventing a team wipe? either pop an ult to counter it (CC or defensive). or boop him after his first dash post blade.
then he has to chase ppl on foot, and most can out run him, he’d need a lucio to boost him around. and at that point thats 3 people contributing to this ult combo
It goes through barrier, yet is still easily counterable by trans.
The only way for a nanoblade to get a kill while trans is active is to flawlessly do dash slash combo over and over.
Disrupt a single dash and that’s it. No more kills.
Never, instead of running he’ll spam his double jump. Meaning he’ll not only move faster than you, but you will have a hard time hitting him.
Needs a wall, and only makes you move marginally faster than Genji. How many Lucio wallride for 6 seconds ?
Amp it up is easily baited, and has a 12 second cooldown. Low chance of it being available when Genji ults.
Sorry I don’t judge people by their profiles.
Dragonblade (and Genji as a whole) is way easier to use than Doomfist. This has nothing to do with the topic. Try and land RP on a double jumping fast running target. Below GM or maybe Masters, this is luck based.
As for Charge, it’s highly telegraphed, puts Rein way out of position where he most likely can’t protect his team and is extremely hard to land, again, on a fast moving target.
I don’t have an issue with the synergy of Nanoblade, but its overall power. Most of it comes from Dragonblade itself, not Nanoboost. Nanoboost only removes the best counterplay to Genji’s ult: killing him.
Dragonblade’s power needs to be toned down to the level of other ultimates.
Most of the time, he’ll just avoid Mei, otherwise he’ll kill her before she can freeze him.
The kind that made me lose 250SR in two days.
Jokes aside, Genji has a very slim hitbox, it’s not that easy to deal 400 damage to a small target in around a second (since most non-ult stuns last less than a second). Not so long ago, a Tracer could easily survive a Hook. That’s 150HP, with Roadhog eating most. Imagine 400…
Around 19. Which is similar to: Ashe, Doomfist (pre-nerf), Mei or McCree.
Genji’s ult is a zoning ult (people spread to avoid dash reset or group in Trans), that allows easy multi picks and has fast travel speed. Why does he get all the advantages ?
No, sorry. Stats show this is a balance problem.
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His stats show nothing of the sort. He’s not even meta right now.
This is straight up untrue. Genji’s running speed by default is faster than most of the casts- dragonblade increases his speed putting him on par with a speed aura Lucio.
its ‘faster’ by a small amount… edit: and yes it supposedly improves movement speed… but you can still out run him if you boop, thus why i said boop. but idk the numbers for it)
hes not a speed demon. if i recall its like 5 m/s vs 5.5 (its either this or 5.5 vs 6m/s)
the reason genji can catch people is because they backpeddle (walk backwards) away from him.
that means theyre moving 4.5 vs his 5.5, and ofc at 1m/s he’s going to catch up. but most heroes in game have something to use vs a genji.
soldier for instance can just sprint away, mccree can stun. widow can grapple
zen can kill him or trans, ana can sleep or nade, lucio can boop then speed away OR drop beat. mercy can fly away or kill him. moira can fade (or kill him) and brig can stun him and kill him. thats just the supports
tanks soak the dmg, and most dps have atleast 1 mobility, cc or defensive skill.
the issue is alot of these players dont think when they play, so a mccree wastes his stun to kill a baby dva then a genji ults half a second later and hes a sitting duck and dies. then all of a sudden “genji op nid nerf”
resource management is a key aspect of countering ults, every hero has to do it for every ult. people focus on dragonblade because people from bronze to plat cant aim. and thats like 85% of the population
as a mccree main who played genji for a short time, i can tell you right now ANY HERO can out run blade long enough that youd have to be stupid to chase them.
this is why a key aspect of using blade is making sure you wait for any boop or CC to be on used THEN you blade. so you dont get screwed over when you dash onto them.
Lucio (a fast character) moves 6.6mps when wallriding.
Genji when using dragonblade moves 8mps. Adding on his blade range of 5m that’s 13m range he can be effective in.
(Source: Overwatch wiki)
Given that one of the faster and more manuverable characters in the game is outsped by Genji using his ult I’d say that yeah, he kinda is a speed demon. Then when you add in the need to be within 8m for Lucio boop, that’s a very narrow window where you can boop and then get away safely (and bare in mind that’s one character on the high end of manuverability). Yes it’s possible but it’s far easier for the genji to dash into position to ult then dash again from the free dash pressing q gives him.
And yeah, I wasn’t talking about other types of counterplay- I was talking about speed, which genji undeniably has the upper hand on
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Stop pretending that Nano blade should always wipe.
Bet. Because it does. Sincerely a Lucio main.
I think that the main issue is that his dash is so quick it’s hard to reliably track his movements during blade.
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if enemy is abusing nano blade especially if they are duo’ing just go hog and whole hog him every time he tries it
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and this is where not understanding how those numbers actually interact comes into play.
lets imagine a senario, mccree/zen vs dragonblade. no CC no ult but they have one thing going for them
as soon as the genji dashes near them, hes instantly booped away by an ashe or lucio.
so we’ll assume the Mczen has a 5m/s base speed. they hear blade and start looking for him too start shooting. they realize theyre the target and they start moving.
lucio boops the genji and hes now 10 meters away (roughly what the boop does)
running in a straight line the genji takes 3.3 seconds to REACH the zen. then depending on if hes dmg boosted or nano it will take bout 2 more seconds to kill the target.
so running away ment the genji used 5.3 seconds (or so) to kill ONE target. this is the best case senario for a genji
if hes jumping his movement is drastically worse. (which is why i honestly never even noticed blade increased speed)
and while all of thats going down, genji is walking in a perfect straight line to cover distance…if hes doing that literally anyone could shoot him and get kill in that 3.3 seconds.
his ‘upper hand’ is so minor that if he isnt directly on top of you it doesnt matter. even if the boop only pushes genji 6 meters from slash range. its still 2 seconds of chase before he can slash. thats 1/3 of his ult waste chasing (and none of these include the hang time from being booped)
this is why boop is such an important thing for the genji to avoid entirely. without a speed boost to help him chase, genji blade is nullified simply by being aware and running.
also just googled it the base speed of every hero is 5.5 (genji/tracer are 6) m/s
so it would take longer then the proposed numbers listed here for him to catch up.
movement is a very strong type of counterplay to dragonblade, slightly larger numbers dont instantly mean you lose. this isnt the dragonball franchise were talking about
and then next fight you get grav dragoned and you cannot answer that because you just used it for nano blade.